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Shaolin Do???

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  • callmetrinity
    replied
    The Shaolin-Do website and philosophy is crap.
    For starters, they state:
    "If your primary interest is tournament skills, I advise you to seek your training elsewhere! Most of what you will learn here is too lethal for tournament use. I teach the ancient system of Shaolin Do, 'Art of survival, not of sport.'

    Then you look further on the site and see info and pics of tournaments all over.
    Talk about bullshit contradiction!

    Leave a comment:


  • MasterKiller
    replied
    Watch the "Shaolin Grand Master" clip. It's the worst praying mantis you'll ever see. Doesn't even look like CMA.

    http://www.shao-lin.com/Category.cfm?CategoryID=13

    I've busted their story apart many times on KFO. None of their lineage/history holds up under scruntiny. Even the stupid "we wear Gis because of an Indonesian law banning CMA" story is bogus. Sin The' came to America in 1964. That law was passed in Indonesia in 1965.

    Leave a comment:


  • like to fight
    replied
    sryufighter?

    where are you training now? are you in the wva area?

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Mantis
    replied
    TTT

    This thread has now been resurected 2 times. It is pertinent to current events, and has some interesting information.

    This is interesting from Kial just a few posts up

    The friend is in telling me about learning a new form reciently, that his instructor started out and it looked really odd. Then the instructor stops half way through, "Sorry, messed up, that's the Japanese version of the form." It was a 'kung-fu-ed' up Sanchin kata.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHungsta
    replied
    http://www.shaolincenter.com/video/a...fi_noaudio.avi

    This is a clip of two shaolin-do students sparring. I realize not all practitioners may spar like this, but this is pathetic. Notice how the caucasian man fights from a horse stance with his hands on his thighs. I also liked how his opponent dropped randomly and did that retarded sweep, and he didn't counterattack, he just let him get up. Notice how when he is approached, he turns around, kicks the guy behind his back, and rolls forward. -____-

    By the way, more clips can be found here: http://www.shaolincenter.com/video/clips.jsp

    Leave a comment:


  • rainfall
    replied
    For what its worth.... One of these schools opened near our school (half a block) a few years ago. One of my training partners and I dropped in to meet the guy. He had only been practicing a short few years, and was dan ranked with his own school. I got the feeling there wasn't much depth to their practice. I did however have an opportunity to see that they do work out very hard during class, if you are interseted in the excersize, it will probably suffice. We intended to come back to observe their sparring, but the timing never worked out. I also later met some students of that group. They also seemed to me like people with no depth to their study. I don't have a good impression of the group, but they never claimed to me that they were monks or even linked to the shaolin temple, so I can't say they made false statements. At one point, they were charging 70/mo for 1 class per week of 'tai chi'. That's a bit of a rip off. The website for the one in my area is http://swshaolin.com/.

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  • Kail
    replied
    I have to add my voice to the majority here. There is a SD place about an hour north of my home, and a guy teaching out of the same gym my instructor is using on another night. I've got one friend I graduated with, and a guy that used to work for me who trained at the place an hour away. Went a few rounds with some orange and brown belts at a sport jujitsu tourny about 7 or 8 years back as well. That's my background with the SD folks, haven't trained in their dojos, but I've worked out with a couple of there people on several occasions.

    First trouble I have with them is the claim of teaching everything, and I mean everything under the sun. Tons of weapons, cool with me is a Shoalin based art and that's pretty much their thing, lots of weapons. Empty hand forms all over the place, sorta fine. Flier for the local guy, a 3rd degree BB, offers the following{from memory here}TaiChi, Qi Gong, Snake, Tiger, Dragon, Crane, Lepord, Wing Chun, Judo/jujitsu, Kempo, Mantis, Ching I{Spelling way off I know}, Pakqua, Drunken Boxing, ALL weapons. That's what I recall, and I'm fairly certain I left some things out. When I guy that I've got three or four years on, and I'm pretty much a spring chicken, claims to be able to teach that much? Alarm bells ring. The friend is in telling me about learning a new form reciently, that his instructor started out and it looked really odd. Then the instructor stops half way through, "Sorry, messed up, that's the Japanese version of the form." It was a 'kung-fu-ed' up Sanchin kata. Guy who worked for me is drilling with one of his buddies at a friend's place that used to be a dojo. The technique they are working is so ackward and horrifying, I'm forced to get up and go work out with them, trying to inject come common sense and at least mildly sain body mechanics into the drills. A year later, the friend has moved to a new home and the same guys are doing the same drill, its still so bad he is compelled to try to help them when he sees it.

    I've yet to find anyone who can give anything resembling a decient answer as to why its "Shoalin Do" other than, "its a blend of the softer kung-fu styles with the harder karate styles. The 'do' part is there to show that part of the style.' Generally the question is greeted with thousand yard stares and a lot of blinking. My instructor and one friend went up and talked to the guy teaching out of the gym a week or two before Christmas. A lot of talk from him, not interested in working out with them right now, apparently knew a lot about every style and system that was mentioned. They want me to go talk to him next as he apparently claimed a lot of knowledge in the few areas I have experience with, I can't see it ending well. The only SD person I've met that was any good had a solid background in other arts and was highly motivated to train on his own, everyone else has been lacluster to say the least.

    But, that's just my experience, take it with a grian of salt.

    Leave a comment:


  • WhiteShark
    replied
    "Our sparring consists of alot more than just pairing up and wailing on each other. We are encouraged to work on technique and experiment with translating the moves and techniques learned in the forms into effective sparring."

    To me that is a negative not a positive. You SHOULD be "wailing" on each other in sparring. At least contact should be closer to wailing than tapping. And experimenting with form interpretation is not really the goal of sparring. When sparring your goal should be learning how to fight. As far as interpreting forms goes the teacher should instruct you. Then you should break it down and drill the pieces of the kata/form to understand the applications. (granted all that is if you care about the kata/form that much)

    Leave a comment:


  • Leodom
    replied
    Skummer, fortunately for me, my experience with SD has not mirrored yours. Our sparring consists of alot more than just pairing up and wailing on each other. We are encouraged to work on technique and experiment with translating the moves and techniques learned in the forms into effective sparring. While there are some students who don't take it very seriously, those students who are serious get much help and encouragement from the instructors. It is acknowledged that some of the forms stances do not translate well into a fight but are more useful for conditioning and strength training. Although grappling isn't taught, it is respected. I may take some grappling art in the future, in addition to Shaolin-Do; but for now, I don't have the time to add another class.

    Leave a comment:


  • Skummer
    replied
    Originally posted by Leodom
    This hasn't been my experience. Sparring has been a part of my testing. My last belt test included 2 on 1 sparring.

    There is a mimimum time requirement for rank advancement.
    Indeed. There were usually sparring in tests. But so what? Were you tested on sparring? If you got beat down, do you not pass? I've never heard of a single person in SD who failed a rank test.

    Sparring does not a legitimate school make. In SD, at least in my experience, it was all light contact free sparring. Most people would just punch/kick randomly looking to contact the other guy. This type of sparring is not adequate for real self-defense in most cases.

    Practicing technique was almost unheard of. I can't tell you how many times I asked others to practice application only to be turned down in favour of forms practice. I even put a notice on the bulletin board at the school asking for people to practice technique or isolated sparring. One black belt said he'd do push hands and that's it. I quit 2 weeks later.

    I recently had words online with an SD instructor in Kentucky. He said all grappling was garbage and just a fad. He also said he would bite a grappler's pressure points if he were taken down. This says volumes about what he teaches at his particular school.

    I realize there are some decent Martists in SD, but the system itself probably didn't make them that way. Only personal determination and rigorous training on their own caused that.

    Then again, if it makes you happy, then good luck to you. Though I strongly encourage you to take some sample classes in competitive styles (judo, bjj, boxing, etc) to see the difference in TRAINING methods.

    Leave a comment:


  • by-the-throat
    replied
    Leodom: who do you study under? Like I said, so many of the guys come from\have experience with other styles that it's almost impossible to get a universal art. (Well, even more impossible than in most martial arts) In other words, the forms are consistent from kwoon to kwoon, but little else is.

    Also, the story of CMA's being banned in Pakistan (or wherever it was) seems hokey to me; the only place I can think of where chinese martial arts were banned was china during the communist revolution. And it wasn't really even banned then, just brutally emasculated.

    Anyway, I'm not trying to rag on your style; I had some good times with it and I do believe there are martial applications in there somewhere (again, at black belt level) but as for the historical authenticity? Surely you have to admit the evidence is lacking.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leodom
    replied
    Originally posted by TheHungsta
    Bullshit. So Shaolin is a Japanese word?
    They didn't change all the terminology. It sounds feasible to me. If I am naive, so be it. I don't care what it's called. My instructor is a man of integrity and He has given me no reason not to trust him. The school is solid.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHungsta
    replied
    Originally posted by Leodom
    The explanation I have heard about why it is a Chinese art using Gis and some Japanese terminology are that the terminology was changed to avoid an anti-Chinese bias in the country Su Kong Tai Djin settled in after leaving China. (The name of the country escapes me right now).
    Bullshit. So Shaolin is a Japanese word?

    Leave a comment:


  • Leodom
    replied
    Originally posted by Skummer
    It's all about forms and getting the next rank as quickly as possible (which is based solely on forms).
    This hasn't been my experience. Sparring has been a part of my testing. My last belt test included 2 on 1 sparring.

    There is a mimimum time requirement for rank advancement.

    Leave a comment:


  • Leodom
    replied
    I've been in a Shaolin Do school for about a year and a half. Yes, there are alot of forms. As with any school, it's not going to be any better than the instructor. I've seen some brown belts that can kick ass and I've seen some black belts that can't. I don't think you can judge a system by just a few of the practitioners. I have spent time listening to Grandmaster Sin The'.

    To straighten out a couple of inaccuracies: There is one (1) pre-black belt form that fits the description by-the-throat gives. It was the first form I was taught. As with any katas and forms, if the instructor doesn't/can't show and teach the applications of the moves, it's just a dance. I guess I have been fortunate as applications and sparring are heavily stressed by my instructor. Sin The's progression to grandmaster took 19 years per his published bio. (started at age 6). Rank progression is not stressed/forced upon anyone. I have never heard of a belt test costing more than $40. Yes, you have to buy your own weapons, if you want to learn them well and practice outside of class. For most weapons, you could improvise with short or long sticks if you had to. You wouldn't learn as well, but you obviously aren't real serioius about it if you aren't willing to buy your own weapons. The explanation I have heard about why it is a Chinese art using Gis and some Japanese terminology are that the terminology was changed to avoid an anti-Chinese bias in the country Su Kong Tai Djin settled in after leaving China. (The name of the country escapes me right now). When Sin The' started teaching in the USA, Karate was a more commercially acceptable, generic, name for martial arts, so he called his school a Karate school. My guess is, He also didn't want to be associated with the cheesy Kung-Fu movies that were popular at the time.

    About the large number of forms. If you read the list of forms on the Shaolin-Do web-site, remember that each of the forms is listed twice, once in English and once in Chinese.

    As far as my experience with Shaolin-Do, I have lost 20 pounds (from 190 to 170), I am in better physical condition than I have been in since College (15 years). I can take and give a punch, my reflexes have improved dramatically, and I am more flexible than ever.

    I wouldn't call my school a McDojo, but I guess they might be out there.

    Leave a comment:

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