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    How fake is this Tai Chi video?

    I know what it is to be an over complaint Aikidoka, but I haven't had professional stunt training. What I am looking for here is thoughts on if this video is fake, and if so in what ways:



    Q: WTF kind of Tai Chi is that?

    A: This kind:


    Q: That's weird, they aren't shooting... what's the rules?

    A: Generally touching the ground with anything besides the feet gives the opponent a point, they score by getting you to touch the ground with your knee (or other part of the body that isn't your feet.)


    Q: If you think it could be staged, why do you think it might be real?

    A: Because some Tai Chi people ARE THAT BAD. (Most Tai Chi is low quality Yang style. Chen style [featured in the above video] is the gold standard for people who want to get hard core about it. He could really suck worse than most untrained people from thinking he learned a thing or two from line dancing in the park/low quality Yang):



    Q: Is there any possibility that this Chen ZiQiang does sparring that does not look like a demo?

    A: yes, and in most of those sparring videos he does NOT turn to camera and make a "stop filming" gesture like he does in the first video above in question:



    Here's a "fight break down video" that adds confusing commentary (like asserting the larger guy is a wrestler which I seriously doubt) but which adds slow motion at some of the key points in question:

    #2
    Either Mr. Wrestler was coached to take the fall, or he just is a disgusting fatbody with no training (as evinced by his heavy breathing after a couple of seconds of pummeling). The throws looked real enough, but I think the big dude should have been able to stuff them with a minimum of training.

    So, fake? Probably not. Definitely misleading, though.
    Consider for a moment that there is no meme about brown-haired, brown-eyed step children.

    Comment


      #3
      Why do you call Yang style "low quality" compared to Chen? I think Chen style is cool, but I've trained with Chen guys who only did forms, and Yang guys who mostly did moving step push hands. The latter could mop the floor with the former at push hands.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by BFGalbraith View Post
        I know what it is to be an over complaint Aikidoka, but I haven't had professional stunt training. What I am looking for here is thoughts on if this video is fake, and if so in what ways:



        Q: WTF kind of Tai Chi is that?

        A: This kind:


        Q: That's weird, they aren't shooting... what's the rules?

        A: Generally touching the ground with anything besides the feet gives the opponent a point, they score by getting you to touch the ground with your knee (or other part of the body that isn't your feet.)


        Q: If you think it could be staged, why do you think it might be real?

        A: Because some Tai Chi people ARE THAT BAD. (Most Tai Chi is low quality Yang style. Chen style [featured in the above video] is the gold standard for people who want to get hard core about it. He could really suck worse than most untrained people from thinking he learned a thing or two from line dancing in the park/low quality Yang):



        Q: Is there any possibility that this Chen ZiQiang does sparring that does not look like a demo?

        A: yes, and in most of those sparring videos he does NOT turn to camera and make a "stop filming" gesture like he does in the first video above in question:



        Here's a "fight break down video" that adds confusing commentary (like asserting the larger guy is a wrestler which I seriously doubt) but which adds slow motion at some of the key points in question:
        Fake Threws!

        Comment


          #5
          Talk about a confusing OP...

          Chen Z is not fake, he is a skilled grappler. The other guy, who knows.
          Falling for Judo since 1980

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          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Permalost View Post
            Why do you call Yang style "low quality" compared to Chen? I think Chen style is cool, but I've trained with Chen guys who only did forms, and Yang guys who mostly did moving step push hands. The latter could mop the floor with the former at push hands.
            I agree with you here 100%. I specifically said "low-quality-Yang-style" attempting to separate it from "high quality Yang style". The Sifu who taught me to use Tai Chi in Kickboxing was a Yang practitioner (so to be clear _I_ am a Yang practitioner.) I have met people doing Chen forms who didn't do any Tai Chi related sparring, and actually the guys I got my ass kicked doing this style of moving step push hands against weren't Chen but Wudang Dan Pai style Tai Chi.

            Comment


              #7
              I've done push hands before where you could literally toss someone across the room. It looks really good to people who are watching and don't know any better. But here is what was really happening: We were doing push hands where you were not allowed to move your feet. It was fixed push hands. So what happens is that you are fully committing to a certain push but get countered unexpectedly. But you don't want to go so you keep your feet rooted till the last minute thinking you can overcome the push and counter it. Then at the last second you start to fall. Then you end up having to roll or stumble to keep from falling on your face.

              It is not a fake toss, more of the same thing that happens when you are falling down in the yard, feel like it's slow motion, and for some reason can't get your feet underneath you. So not the results of the throw/push so much as just a result of your balance being off.

              Push hands are fun and effective in the rule set. Obviously a penetration step into a high crotch would work well against push hands, but it's not allowed in the rule set.
              Combatives training log.

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              Comment


                #8
                Without proper context your question cannot be answered. Is it fake skills? Nope. Back in my prime I could do similar to a mid level or beginner to grappling..........in my rule set. Also, you have to factor in shame and the student teacher relationship. I know, a few times, I gave a visiting instructor an out or let up when I knew I was equal or outclassed them (part of why I ended up here). Nope, not saying this was or is the case with your initial video.

                This is free spar demo in my opinion. As we all know, most of us anyway, "spar" and "fight" really are not synonyms. To me the title is indicative of what Bullshido railed against back in the day. This is a training video showing students how to feel their opponent's energy and movement. He was free to "play/spar" in a certain rule set. Notice, he never shoots for the legs, never tries to fully grab the uniform etc.

                Also, to sort of back up my opinion:
                https://chentaijisi.wordpress.com/vs...-chen-ziqiang/




                He separates push hands from Sanshou which means, at least to me, he understands the difference unlike the charlatans.



                One last thing, don't let titles fool you especially on YouTube. "Fight" is going to get more random hits than "spar" or "push hands."

                Comment


                  #9
                  Been away from here for awhile, but I have some direct knowledge on the first video. Mike P, the host, was a former wrestler (don't know exact background/record), and the idea behind the video was to film a demo. Specifically, to give CZQ some force and allow him to work some throws. Was Mike being compliant? Absolutely, and he never claimed anything but.a demo.

                  So, is it fake? Not if you know the original parties or message involved. Unfortunately, a lot of people copied and reshared marketing as "real life taiji fighting", which does it a disservice.

                  Side note: Another guy from Atlanta showed up at that same seminar, was extremely NON compliant, and left CZQ with a black eye. I learned about that at his next seminar stop when I saw the shiner. Unfortunately for me, in a friendly bout he decided that he was a bit done with Westerners testing him and went after my knees. (Two damaged meniscus and an MCL issue)

                  Regarding push hands in general: it's a phase, it's not meant to be the end result, and leads to a sanda/sanshou training after...

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