Rigan Machado knowingly promotes convicted rapist to BJJ black belt

[Michael Tzadok]

What I find interesting is how the wife and nutriders try to shift the narrative onto Georgette. It's like watching US politics.

Are they still doing that? I thought that was mostly just the first round before Georgette solidified her case.

If they are still doing it, well it makes sense. She laid out a pretty rock solid case for deception and the probable promotion. When the facts are against you, sling mud. Ad Hom is a tried and true argumentative tactic even if it's a logical fallacy.

So .... any word on that official statement?

I don't see one anywhere.

Murphy did you ever get a response to your queries ?

My guess, is, from the way it seems to have played out, Georgette put up her initial post. There was some quick website editing and the promise of a statement by the end of the day today. Then Georgette put up her second post, with all the really solid evidence. BJJEE ran with it, and dug up a couple(not many but a couple) of nuggets that Georgette missed. Now they are trying to figure out how to gas light the public. I wouldn't bet on seeing the promised statement. It was easy to say(like the wife did initially) that it was all Paul Saucido making stuff up. Now though... With screen shots of websites, and social media that narrative was shot full of holes before it ever got a chance to float.

[Dr. Gonzo]

What if Rigan Machado said George Dillman has great no-touch knockouts? Would you still be unable to draw a conclusion due to being unfamiliar with Dillman's full range of knowledge and teachings?

But Rigan has not said that to my knowledge.

So, that is not a scenario I need to worry about.

In my experience, I have never met someone who could back up claims of having magic powers.

I am a long time fan of the Amazing Randi.

[It is Fake]

Are they still doing that? I thought that was mostly just the first round before Georgette solidified her case.

No, it doesn't matter when, it was stupid from the start. A registered sex offender was promoted to black belt. The first thing you should be talking about is the claim being true and what happened. Smear shouldn't even appear until all of the facts appear and it is proven false.

[It is Fake]

But Rigan has not said that to my knowledge.

So, that is not a scenario I need to worry about.

In my experience, I have never met someone who could back up claims of having magic powers.

I am a long time fan of the Amazing Randi.

Just stop being this obtuse, it is embarrassing when you have PhD prominently displayed in your username. He is saying your poor example above is in the same frame of reference as his Dillman example. No.... don't..EVEN try to go there in your next post. You have provided analogies and hypothetical scenarios in this thread and others, so the "I need not worry about" is a weak attempt at refusing to answer his comment.

[Dr. Gonzo]

A registered sex offender was promoted to black belt. The first thing you should be talking about is the claim being true and what happened.

A registered sex offender has claimed to have been promoted to black belt in BJJ by Rigan Machado.

That claim may be false, and I hope that it is false, or it may end up being true.

But until there is proof that the claim is true, it should be assumed to be false.

The maker of the claim (Saucido) has the burden of proof of proving that Rigan Machado really did promote him to black belt in BJJ.

[It is Fake]

A registered sex offender has claimed to have been promoted to black belt in BJJ by Rigan Machado.

That claim may be false, and I hope that it is false, or it may end up being true.

But until there is proof that the claim is true, it should be assumed to be false.

The maker of the claim (Saucido) has the burden of proof of proving that Rigan Machado really did promote him to black belt in BJJ.

Aren't you the one who complained earlier about context?

Yes.

So, use it and don't cherry pick my post. That's a very ugly straw man you just attempted right there buddy.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Just stop being this obtuse, it is embarrassing when you have PhD prominently displayed in your username. He is saying your poor example above is in the same frame of reference as his Dillman example. No.... don't..EVEN try to go there in your next post. You have provided analogies and hypothetical scenarios in this thread and others, so the "I need not worry about" is a weak attempt at refusing to answer his comment.

I did answer it.

I don't believe in magic powers.

This includes George Dillman style no touch knock outs.

And unlike Systema, and unlike the Systema instructor,

I am very familiar with people who claim that they have magic powers, specifically no touch knock outs,

because I and my students, and my Gracie Jiu-Jitsu training partners, spent the first ten years of my career choking them out whenever they agreed to a live test with full resistance of what they did versus Jiu-Jitsu.

I am much more cautious about advocating such reality test behaviors now with no touch knock out practitioners,

because I have come to realize that those that believe in no touch knock outs are often mentally ill, or at best seriously deluded, and usually also not very bright.

There are also of course frauds, but surprisingly I think many of the frauds also kind of believe there own woo.

It's sad.

[Michael Tzadok]

No, it doesn't matter when, it was stupid from the start. A registered sex offender was promoted to black belt. The first thing you should be talking about is the claim being true and what happened. Smear shouldn't even appear until all of the facts appear and it is proven false.

Didn't say it wasn't stupid. Most Ad Homs are stupid, and the last resort of people who know that the truth and facts aren't on their side. That they decided to smear Georgette so early on, instead of just politely saying, that the guy is a liar and we never did that, but instead went out of their way to smear her and accuse her of all sorts of stuff(not the nutriders, but the wife) was for me the initial tipping point where I thought that there was real traction to this story. Most people don't do that if the facts are on their side.

A registered sex offender has claimed to have been promoted to black belt in BJJ by Rigan Machado.

That claim may be false, and I hope that it is false, or it may end up being true.

But until there is proof that the claim is true, it should be assumed to be false.

The maker of the claim (Saucido) has the burden of proof of proving that Rigan Machado really did promote him to black belt in BJJ.

You mean other than teaching a semminar at his place? Other than him posing in Rigan's academy wearing Machado patches and a black belt with 3 other Rigan black belts? Have you even looked at the evidence so far or is Rigan such a Saint that only an admission of guilt from his own mouth going to convince you that some seriously shady stuff is going down here?

[Dr. Gonzo]

Didn't say it wasn't stupid. Most Ad Homs are stupid, and the last resort of people who know that the truth and facts aren't on their side. That they decided to smear Georgette so early on, instead of just politely saying, that the guy is a liar and we never did that, but instead went out of their way to smear her and accuse her of all sorts of stuff(not the nutriders, but the wife) was for me the initial tipping point where I thought that there was real traction to this story. Most people don't do that if the facts are on their side.



You mean other than teaching a semminar at his place? Other than him posing in Rigan's academy wearing Machado patches and a black belt with 3 other Rigan black belts? Have you even looked at the evidence so far or is Rigan such a Saint that only an admission of guilt from his own mouth going to convince you that some seriously shady stuff is going down here?

Does Saucido have black belts in other arts?

Are we entirely certain of the dates and timelines of all the pictures?

Do be honest, I do fear that Saucido tugged on Rigan's religious views, which include views on mercy for those who claim to have had a religious conversion following undesirable or sinful behavior.

And then Rigan may have agreed to provide some support if Saucido then "proved" his sincerity by good works congruent with the religion.

I really hope this does not turn out to be the case, but for full disclosure, this is something I have been worried about since I read Georgette's original post.

[It is Fake]

You mean other than teaching a semminar at his place? Other than him posing in Rigan's academy wearing Machado patches and a black belt with 3 other Rigan black belts? Have you even looked at the evidence so far or is Rigan such a Saint that only an admission of guilt from his own mouth going to convince you that some seriously shady stuff is going down here?

Until we see a perfectly time stamped video of the promotion ceremony, W will defend this guy to the ends of the earth. Trust me, I think you were in one of many threads, he will defend this guy no matter what.

Edit:
LOL and he confirms my post while I was writing my reply.

[Dr. Gonzo]

]Until we see a perfectly time stamped video of the promotion ceremony, W will defend this guy to the ends of the earth. Trust me, I think you were in one of many threads, he will defend this guy no matter what.

Not no matter what.

But why should I believe a claim is true about anybody until I see proof?

[Michael Tzadok]

Do be honest, I do fear hat Saucido tugged on Rigan's religious views, which include views on mercy for those who claim to have had a religious conversion following undesirable or sinful behavior.

And then Rigan may have agreed to provide some support if Saucido then "proved" his sincerity by good works congruent with the religion.

I really hope this does not turn out to be the case, but for full disclosure, this is something I have been worried about since I read Georgette's original post.

This is the start of a bad joke. A muslim and a born againer walk into a dojo one day...

[It is Fake]

Not no matter what.

But why should I believe a claim is true about anybody until I see proof?

You just excused the photos by saying "Are we entirely certain of the dates and timelines of all the pictures?"

Then you pull Religion in to give him an out. Naw, dude, you do not need to convince me of anything, I know what I just read here and in other threads. Convince yourself you won't defend him to the ends of the earth.

[Dr. Gonzo]

You just excused the photos by saying "Are we entirely certain of the dates and timelines of all the pictures?"

Then you pull Religion in to give him an out. Naw, dude, you do not need to convince me of anything, I know what I just read here and in other threads. Convince yourself you won't defend him to the ends of the earth.

First, it is right to question the chain of evidence in any investigation or inquiry and to independently double or triple check all details about that chain of evidence.

Second, I did not say that religion would make the situation right or wrong.

I said that was my own fear regarding a situation or potential chain of events that could of produced an outcome where the claim might end up being true.

I am an Atheist myself.

I never state that a behavior is good or a behavior is bad, simply because religion comes into play.

However, people that are religious often do make choices based on their religion, and sometimes can be swayed to make certain choices because of their religion.

[It is Fake]

First, it is right to question the chain of evidence in any investigation or inquiry and to independently double or triple check all details about that chain of evidence.

No, stop it.

Second, I did not say that religion would make the situation right or wrong.

I said you are giving him an out, which has NOTHING to do with right or wrong. It is all about giving someone an excuse or reason to say "no, this isn't what happened."

I said that was my own fear regarding a situation or potential chain of events that could of produced an outcome where the claim might end up being true.

I am an Atheist myself.

I never state that a behavior is good or a behavior is bad, simply because religion comes into play.

However, people that are religious often do make choices based on their religion, and sometimes can be swayed to make certain choices because of their religion.

One huge straw man. It has already been questioned and NO ONE has refuted anything with any type of tangible proof. Questioning means you do something, not sit back and wait while spewing all of these straw man arguments and red herrings. I'd pick it apart, but you just don't see what you are doing with those love glasses on.