Rigan Machado knowingly promotes convicted rapist to BJJ black belt

[Raycetpfl]

I don't like when fighters drop their hands.

Tae kwon do competitors do it a lot though, I think their claim is it lets them kick harder or faster.

I am not a Tae Kwon Do stylist though.

I prefer the people I train to keep their hands up at all times...

When I was growing up, I Wrestled and Boxed.

Most people, especially kids but even adults went on and on about Kung Fu and Karate, and claimed that not only were Wrestling and Boxing not martial arts, they would not work against Karate and Kung Fu.

That was the mainstream view for years from people who claimed they knew how to fight and the public treated like they knew how to fight.

My own experience was that Wrestling and Boxing came in very handy in a fight whether the person knew Karate or not.

Flash forward, I remember seeing someone playing guard, I thought, well that looks like bullshit, a Wrestler will tear through that person...not necessarily true as it turns out.

Then flash forward to the mainstream saying that Wrestling won't work against Jiu-Jitsu, until Marcelo Garcia showed it did.

Karo and Rhonda demonstrating that high level Judo adapts just fine to MMA despite mainstream fight folks saying nope.

People saying Karate does not work, whoops here comes Machida.

Bottom turtle is a shit position, wait, wait, Ed Telles and Ben Peterson proved that is not true.

Heel hooks don't work against high level Jiu-Jitsu players, wait, wait, Dean Lister and DDS proved that they do (again).

Catch Wrestling does not work, but Sakaraba and Josh Barnett did not seem to have gotten that memo as they made several high level Jiu-Jitsu people tap with figure footlocks and double wrist locks.

So, I do hate when people drop their hands in fighting and self defense.

And I don't believe I have any chi, so I tend not to believe in chi.

But, I remain a hands on researcher.

I have never trained with somebody who is a Systema person, so I have no frame of reference what or why or...the Systema guy. I don't give a strong opinion on Systema other than to say that I am not tactically nor strategically nor philosophically familiar with it. I know they seem to drop their hands (which is a pet peeve of mine for anybody to do), they appear to do Aikido-ish things in street clothes, and you can have a lot of fun with a Sambo player by introducing him or her as someone who is a Systema master. That is the limit of my Systema knowledge (I basically know nothing about it).

I would add, people say Capoeira does not work, but I have seen Capoeira kicks knock people out plenty of times.
I have not trained in Capoeira, but I'll go out on a limb and say look out for that whip kick if you are clinching or striking a real Capoeira player.
Capoeira players also practice the scissors takedown, and seem to have good falling and acrobatic skills (no mats, crazy!).

So...

Your reasoning here is pretty fucked up. It really doesn't matter what know nothing's say about fighting. It doesn't really matter what people thought before there was video evidence. There is now.
The dominant styles around the world are Sambo,Bjj, catch,wrestling,Judo,Boxing, Muay Thai(Shogun vs Machida, Matt Brown vs Wonder Boy), karates and San shou....... but the guys that are the best at San Shou seem to just be good at wrestling and a differ striking art.....not Kung-fu ie: Cung Le is a taekwondo/ kickboxing guy and folk wrestling and the HW world champion is Freestyle wrestling and Muay Thai.

K1- dominated by Karate,Muay Thai and Boxing. Muay Thai being the dominant style to win Belts. K1 even changed clinching rules to give the other arts more of a chance against Muay Thai. Theres proof of this , 1000's of hours of video proof.
In high level mma they are all useless without high level grappling.
Machida is a Bjj Black Belt and has been since 21 or so. S GSP who is a Kyokushin black belt, trained with the Canadian wrestling team,muay thai and Renzo Gracie. Without their grappling skills they would have never made it out of the minors in mma.
The same is true now of anyone good at kickpunchery. Without good grappling they won't get far.sprawl and brawl is grappling(Chuck liddell- Kenpo Karate,boxing and folk wrestling)


Capoeira has a few useful kicks and is a nice fun acrobatic activity. Almost All of Chute Boxe (Wand,Anderson, Shogun, Machida,etc.) Do Capoeira and I know Anderson Silva is highly ranked in it. Cobrina and Lucas Letie do it as well. None of them believe it's on par with Muay Thai or Jiu-Jitsu for fighting. It's fun and neat with some really useful things.

Catch is a funny thing. Most catch people suck. There are a few bright spots and modern catch is heavily Bjj influenced. Catch pretty much died as a sport. there was no one left to teach it except a couple guys. If you find a catch guy that hasn't done bjj I would be suprised.

Systema is fucking garbage and someone that claims otherwise is selling you something.


There are millions of dollars on the line if a style is legit it will be present in modern fighting sports that have a rule set that allow it. Kickboxing and mma would allow Systema. Where are their champs?

[Dr. Gonzo]

"If you know the way broadly you will see it in everything." -Miyamoto Musashi.This is why I don't have to go to a George Dillman seminar or a Systema seminar to know it's bullshit.

Frankly, it is not a coincidence that I don't go to those seminars either.

[Devil]

Frankly, it is not a coincidence that I don't go to those seminars either.

Which is exactly what I would expect from a man of your considerable experience and extremely advanced age.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Your reasoning here is pretty fucked up. It really doesn't matter what know nothing's say about fighting. It doesn't really matter what people thought before there was video evidence. There is now. The dominant styles around the world are Sambo,Bjj, catch,wrestling,Judo,Boxing, Muay Thai(Shogun vs Machida, Matt Brown vs Wonder Boy), karates and San shou....... but the guys that are the best at San Shou seem to just be good at wrestling and a differ striking art.....not Kung-fu ie: Cung Le is a taekwondo/ kickboxing guy and folk wrestling and the HW world champion is Freestyle wrestling and Muay Thai. K1- dominated by Karate,Muay Thai and Boxing. Muay Thai being the dominant style to win Belts. K1 even changed clinching rules to give the other arts more of a chance against Muay Thai. Theres proof of this , 1000's of hours of video proof.In high level mma they are all useless without high level grappling. Machida is a Bjj Black Belt and has been since 21 or so. S GSP who is a Kyokushin black belt, trained with the Canadian wrestling team,muay thai and Renzo Gracie. Without their grappling skills they would have never made it out of the minors in mma. The same is true now of anyone good at kickpunchery. Without good grappling they won't get far.sprawl and brawl is grappling(Chuck liddell- Kenpo Karate,boxing and folk wrestling) Capoeira has a few useful kicks and is a nice fun acrobatic activity. Almost All of Chute Boxe (Wand,Anderson, Shogun, Machida,etc.) Do Capoeira and I know Anderson Silva is highly ranked in it. Cobrina and Lucas Letie do it as well. None of them believe it's on par with Muay Thai or Jiu-Jitsu for fighting. It's fun and neat with some really useful things. Catch is a funny thing. Most catch people suck. There are a few bright spots and modern catch is heavily Bjj influenced. Catch pretty much died as a sport. there was no one left to teach it except a couple guys. If you find a catch guy that hasn't done bjj I would be suprised. Systema is fucking garbage and someone that claims otherwise is selling you something.There are millions of dollars on the line if a style is legit it will be present in modern fighting sports that have a rule set that allow it. Kickboxing and mma would allow Systema. Where are their champs?

I only comment on what I know. If the question somebody asked me was: "In your professional opinion will training Systema help in Vale Tudo or MMA?" My answer would be: "I am not aware of any data that suggests that training Systema would help prepare you for MMA or Vale Tudo. Can I recommend that you start off by learning Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing, or Sambo (although they are not the only possible base foundations, they are my personal top recommendations)."

[Devil]

I only comment on what I know. If the question somebody asked me was: "In your professional opinion will training Systema help in Vale Tudo or MMA?" My answer would be: "I am not aware of any data that suggests that training Systema would help prepare you for MMA or Vale Tudo. Can I recommend that you start off by learning Gracie Jiu-Jitsu, Wrestling, Boxing, or Sambo (although they are not the only possible base foundations, they are my personal top recommendations)."

Is it comfortable on that fence?

[Dr. Gonzo]

Is it comfortable on that fence?

I think for me to say something is garbage that another expert grappler recommends, particularly an expert grappler whose expertise in the grappling art I am most practiced in exceeds my own, without running myself through the gamut personally of what they have recommended the way they have recommended it would be both irresponsible, and lazy on my part. So my answer is: I am not familiar enough with it to say.

[Michael Tzadok]

Ok quick history of Systema.

Early 1970's Soviet Union's Military complex figures out that the Sambo that they are currently using, especially the combat Sambo is an ineffectual fighting system. They hire a guy named A.A. Kadochnikov to research and fix this. A.A. Kadochnikov puts together a team of researchers with expertise in combat sports(Master of Sport in Sambo, Judo, Slavic/Baltic boxing), military professionals, medical doctors and psychologists. Over the course of roughly twenty years they develop something they originally called Practical Mechanics of Survival(it is from whence Matt Powell took the name Pramek), and later termed Systema. The idea was that by teaching a principle based system where concepts instead of techniques were taught, they could speed up the process by which Combat Sambo's basic combatives system could be taught. Systema at it's core is just that, the principles behind the techniques and some very basic combatives.

Roughly 1988 one of the people in the research team, Alexander Retuinskih started teaching "Renovated Sambo and Renovated Combat Sambo". Mr. Kadochnikov was(and is) dead set against competition and this became a point of friction for them.

1989- A Soviet documentary about the GRU Spetsnaz and their hand to hand combat systems(read propaganda film) is released and in it is stated that the Soviet Union plans to implement in the next 5 years Systema as their official system.

1991- Soviet Union falls Systema was only introduced to an officer's corp in one of the military regions, and was subsequently shelved.

1992- Mr. Retuinskih and Mr. Kadochnikov have an official and somewhat acrimonious break and Mr. Retuinskih begins teaching Systema(now called ROSS by him) to the MVD and FSB, which really irks those with military loyalties. He also begins teaching weekend semminars to try and drum up interest amongst the general public and hobbyists. Mr Vasiliev and Mr Ryabko attend 2 of these Semminars.

1993- Mr. Vasiliev moves to Toronto, claims to be a Systema instructor, prints Mr. Retuinskih's book in Canada and begins teaching(again having only attended 2 weekend Seminars, where as minimum instruction for a level 1 certification is attendance of a six week intensive camp followed by arduous testing).

1994- In recognition for the way the now termed ROSS system has revolutionized the sport of Sambo in Russia Mr. Retuinskih is awarded Honored Master of Sport.

C. 1996 Mr. Retuinskih catches wind of Vasiliev and denies ever giving him right to teach or print his book. Vasiliev claims he was a student of Kadochnikov and Kadochnikov held the rights to the book(technically the latter bit about the rights to the book is true).

C. 1998 Mr. Kadochnikov goes to court and gets an order disallowing Vasiliev to make any reference to him. Suddenly Mikhail Ryabko is on the scene as Vlad's instructor and mentor, and the release a new manual, discontinuing the ripped off Retuinskih one. What they teach gradually starts to become less Systema(the real thing) and more Lubki

C. 2007 Mr. Kadochnikov gets a real bee in his bonnet, takes Ryabko and Vasiliev to court again, now in Russia they are not longer allowed to call what they teach just "Systema" it has to be "Systema Ryabko" and they can no longer make reference to having been Special Forces or teaching them or teaching their system in any way.

In short Vasiliev(and thus Martin Wheeler) have as much Systema(the combatives system of Combat Sambo) as a newbie white belt with 30-40hrs of training has of BJJ. They've then extrapolated an entire "system" off of that.

Sorry for the derail.

To bring it back, considering that the Russian Olympic committee and serious Masters of Sport in the sport that VR Systema comes from claim that it is crap, it is crap. That Rigan Machado recommended an instructor that teaches out of his own gym, and from whom he makes money... Well yup, and I can say that numerous Masters of Sport outweigh him, and frankly he is just wrong and most likely selling out on an endorsement deal.

[It is Fake]

Man, good thing W didn't join back in the day. Fuck he'd have committed suicide. Rigan aligned himself with a rapist, there is proof he said "bye" and then has MULTIPLE pictures with the dude. He says some questionable shit about Systeman, just like another BJJ Black Belt suddenly started nutriding the Chun. Just like another BJJer started nutriding Aikido. It doesn't make their promotions or students shitty, it makes their claims suspect. So, if they talk BJJ I'm all ears, anything else has a HIGH chance of being questioned, with or without context.

Yes, this is general BS, but this is not a Shitpost titled thread. Let's stop the derail NOW.

[Michael Tzadok]

I was impressed by Georgette's blog post. It shows a very clear manipulation of public perception by Rigan. It appears he thought a little wave of the hand and some lip service would fool people into thinking there would be no further interactions or support.

Watching this unfold is like watching our (USA) current political situation. Rigan is supposed to make a statement later today. I can't wait to read it.

On the other hand ... Georgette could have gone through and edited like 10 photos with facebook timestamps and done some serious social hacking all the while time traveling just to pick a fight with a serious player in the BJJ world like the Machado family. I wouldn't put anything past her she did willingly move to Texas.

I'm expecting full out damage control from Rigan to be honest. Now that it has been picked up by BJJEE it's not just going to go away.

[Raycetpfl]

I think for me to say something is garbage that another expert grappler recommends, particularly an expert grappler whose expertise in the grappling art I am most practiced in exceeds my own, without running myself through the gamut personally of what they have recommended the way they have recommended it would be both irresponsible, and lazy on my part. So my answer is: I am not familiar enough with it to say.

Fun fact: Carlos Machado is expected to announce later he's no longer affiliated with Rigan over this.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Fun fact: Carlos Machado is expected to announce later he's no longer affiliated with Rigan over this.

I'll bet you a bowl of Ramen Noodles from the good ramen restaurant that Carlos Machado clarifies that he is not affiliated with Saucido in any way,

but that Carlos Machado does not disown his brother, even if at worst he says that Rigan is his own person, and that they have their own networks (which they have had for a long time).

[Michael Tzadok]

What if the guy is reformed?

Googling about him found this site: http://www.paulsaucido.com/give/

If he's reformed great. Let him stop teaching women's and girl's classes. Personally once his probation is over, and he no longer has to register as a sex offender than, personally I'd be OK with him teaching men, and under supervision(as in teaching in someone else's academy where there is always another instructor present) giving possibly even mixed classes. However, considering his history, him teaching women and girls is a REALLY bad idea. Ever.

Fun fact: Carlos Machado is expected to announce later he's no longer affiliated with Rigan over this.

Do you mind if I ask if you have a source for this?

[Devil]

I think for me to say something is garbage that another expert grappler recommends, particularly an expert grappler whose expertise in the grappling art I am most practiced in exceeds my own, without running myself through the gamut personally of what they have recommended the way they have recommended it would be both irresponsible, and lazy on my part. So my answer is: I am not familiar enough with it to say.

What if Rigan Machado said George Dillman has great no-touch knockouts? Would you still be unable to draw a conclusion due to being unfamiliar with Dillman's full range of knowledge and teachings?

I think you're turning a blind eye to obvious bullshit and avoiding the responsibility of taking a position on the matter.

[It is Fake]

What I find interesting is how the wife and nutriders try to shift the narrative onto Georgette. It's like watching US politics.

[BackFistMonkey]

Fun fact: Carlos Machado is expected to announce later he's no longer affiliated with Rigan over this.

So .... any word on that official statement?

I don't see one anywhere.

Murphy did you ever get a response to your queries ?