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In your opinion what are the holes in WC and could you back them up give examples

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    In your opinion what are the holes in WC and could you back them up give examples

    So I know mine but I'm a touch busy. What flaws have you guys come up with about the WC, WT systems.

    #2
    With or without lineage wars?

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      #3
      With.

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        #4
        Crap! I started one too. http://www.bullshido.net/forums/show...threadid=11318
        Got a little impatient waiting for touchy feely to get back to me.

        Edit: added link.
        Last edited by Mr. Mantis; 4/06/2004 3:41pm, .

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          #5
          Put a link on this thread, it'll be good.

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            #6
            Pro: You can land many straight punches in short time frame.
            Con: Straight punches are just powerful enough to piss your opponent off.

            edited for crappy spelling.

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              #7
              Well, here's my summary. My complaints are more about people than the art:

              - New students of Wing Chun tend to have even more ego that most new MA students. Once they look around and spar a bit this goes away. This is an indirect consequence of...

              -Lineage wars. The politics in WC/WT/VT dwarf those in every other art. Suffice to say, a lot of the big names are too concerned with where the art came from vs. where it is actually going. See: Emin/Leung Ting.

              -The squared stance and footwork are counterintuitive (in my opinion). Sure, there are costs and benefits like everything else, but it's like Karate's chambered blocks and deep stances; you're never going to use those in actual fighting.

              -The entire system seems to assume that your opponent is exactly one foot infront of you. This is from my limited observations, but it doesn't cover the same range of striking as Karate, Muay Thai or other standup arts. If a WC student gives their attacker distance they are at a disadvantage. In that trapping range, however, is another story. My only other thought is that trapping is an unstable range; either the opponent is going to back up to push-kick themself away, or go for clinch and takedown.


              I've taken a grand total of two actual Wing Chun classes and this is largely based on text and video, so feel free to pick those arguments apart.

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                #8
                in wing tsun you fight in your face the aim is to throw you off balance and straight line punches
                leads to inch power which is very good for getting some one off balance

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                  #9
                  i must agree with mr self destruct lots of people in the start have big heads

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                    #10
                    Foot work. The footwork sucks.

                    That's about it. Everything else is pretty badass. I've trained for a couple months under some William Cheung student in LA. It sucked. I learned much more just exchanging techniques and drills with students of Chris Chan in SF. I spent a really great afternoon working out with some Bozetepe type guys in West Hollywood once too. WC shares a LOT of common gnd with Hung Gar and a fair bit with Taiji. The specific techniques are all lifted out of southern Shaolin (aka Hung Gar) but with much more taiji-esque slipperyness.

                    I saw more sheer power and aggresion from certain of the SF guys than I have seen so far in pretty much any MA from any school. I don't know about these back massaging chain punches. One of the guys once hit a guy in a resaurant so hard he stumbled 10-15 feet back, out the door and laded in a heap on the side walk unable to get up. That was one punch. I once reccomended to an acquaintance looking to study someone that he check out Chris's school. He watched a class but still not sure I guess wanted to hear Chris's opinion on "Why, exactly, should I choose to train here at your school?" Chris turned to the metal reinforced fire door and WHAM! Punched it, leaving knuckle prints.

                    "I can teach you to hit like that.", he said.

                    The Cheung based school guys OTOH were a bunch of pansies.

                    The Bozetepe guys were strong and had good ground skills but were not nearly as good as the SF guys.

                    None of them had great footwork. The Bozetepe guys were better than the others but still not very evasive. I've never seen ANY WC/WT guys any good at slipping behind and getting your back or even at simply outflanking you. I've head a lot of lip service to footwork but am still waiting for the evidence.

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                      #11
                      Now this thread has got me trying to think of my own flaws. . . . it's actually hard to think of any these days. Not because "I all that" but because there's honestly no real competition for me around here. It's been probably 6 months since I bumped into anyone else close enough to my level to mis it up. My teacher doesn't count. He can strike me at will and even drop me to the ground at will. By that barometer, I suck at everything. But when I go to the gym to lift weigth or work the heavy bag and goof off with the guys there, I can dump them at will, strike them at will etc. It seems to me, I am most aware my specific flaws when working with someone who is close to my level. Especially someone slightly better than me.

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                        #12
                        foot work is everything
                        its what gives you more power in your punches when
                        using the punching bag with foot work it starts flying all over the place
                        out of control
                        don't want to get in a linage war or anything but different wing chun linages
                        have different foot work some good some very bad

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                          #13
                          its hard to show off wing chun as if you don't go all out it don't really work
                          i mean wt is all about miaiming and breaking arms and legs all that good extremly violent stuff

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                            #14
                            Regarding the footwork, I'm still a relative newbie to wingchun (been doing it for about 7 months now I think).. it's very static and "one way"ish.. however seeing how the people higher up move once they've been taught it all is pretty astounding.. as I too have always thought that the footwork was a bit unco.. but seeing it for my eyes has made me a little less skepctical towards it all.

                            I think after doing it (and probably a very bias view) the holes I've found is pretty much groundwork/grappling etc.. so that's what I'm going to be looking at doing. I think people just see alot of amazingly shit wingchun on the internet with vids/pics etc beCAUSE people get a huge ego after doing WC for such a small amount of time. And of course when they go out and do shit they get served.

                            I'm quite lucky with my sifu, he's done BJJ before so he does teach us some basic ground moves and whatnot.. and we have no holds barred sparring in the 'advanced' classes.. they look pretty nasty :D

                            Oh yeah, recently 2 black belt BJJ'ers came to NZ to teach, their names are Douglas and Pedro, their master is Tony(world BJJ champ apparently?) and Tony's master is Rolls Gracie.. are these guys legit? I figure some crosstraining would do wonders and they're in my area so I'm just wondering if I train through them will I get a solid deal?

                            Thaaaaaaaaaaaanks !


                            [edit]
                            And um... yeah, sad to say that I know fatal touchy :P he has some sort of personal grudge against typing properly so you'll probably never be able to understand him. :P

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                              #15
                              i curse zenokey for listing my only knowen weakness

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