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Mixed martial arts - a terrible mistake

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    Mixed martial arts - a terrible mistake

    From http://www.kegkeg.com/purity.htm (emphasis mine)

    It is therefore reasonable to ask, why then do teachers strive to revert to impure forms in terms of conglomerates. I say impure forms because when one mixes Judo with Aikido with Karate, etc., the new form cannot be said to be any of these. Each follows its own principles and when grouped together these principles are often in conflict and are, therefore, useless. Further, the mixing of forms leads to a contamination of the Tokui Waza principle by diluting it. Of course if one is quite large, very strong and has natural athletic ability, these techniques can be made to look very viable and effective. However, when normal men and women are faced with a threat of overpowering dimension, they must act instantly and directly with efficiency and speed. This can only be accomplished by the internalization of a Tokui Waza by studying a pure art form. This is the only effective answer for those of us that are not overlarge, overstrong, or athletic.

    We should be very thankful to the giant minds of the past such as Master Ueshiba and Dr. Kano, among other great thinkers in the arts who, through their discovery of the need for purification of the arts, made it possible for the common person (and as we grow old even the strongest among us becomes common) by pure study, to be able to achieve equal status with those among us who are gifted by natural size, strength and ability.

    These men have given us a great gift. We would be foolish to throw these treasures away by reverting to a naturally contaminated process.

    Let us then take the pure lessons taught to us by these remarkable men and go forward, spreading to the least among us this knowledge and the self confidence that can only be achieved by the internalization of a pure art form.

    Karl E. Geis
    Summer Clinic Newsletter
    1980, Houston, Texas, USA
    I've made a terrible mistake! All this time wasted on MMA! Guess it's time to learn aikido...
    "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

    Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
    West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
    (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)


    #2
    this is not aikido's fault...

    Comment


      #3
      Kegkeg.com, hahaha

      Comment


        #4
        hmm yeah there is a fair pussy to serious martial artists ratio in aikido...

        Comment


          #5
          fair?

          Comment


            #6
            You're right, there's a serious lack of pussy in BJJ. Maybe that was covered in his followup article...
            "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

            Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

            West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
            West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
            (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)

            Comment


              #7
              Like I said, best school ever.
              "I'm offering straight punch, kick while downed to the ribs or head, and of course- the german suplex...which is one suplex quickly followed by another." - Guerilla Fists

              Matt Thornton explains "aliveness": http://www.bullshido.com/videos/sbg2.wmv

              West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu thread
              West Wind Karate / West Wind Bok Fu / West Wind Kung Fu archive thread
              (experiment to see if I can boost the thread's Google rank)

              Comment


                #8
                Actually this surprises me - Karl Geis trained at the Judo Kodokan and a little bit under Tomiki. Tomiki was a big Judo, Aikido and Kendo man (read mixed) and Karl Geis himself studies several arts.

                You wont get me saying anything particularily wonderful about his Aikido but apparently he's trained some very good US Judo people.

                He talks about Tokui Waza in a very strange way. Basically you have your favorite technique and train it way more than any other. Enough that you can pull it out of your hat anytime, anyplace. If your pure art has only a few techniques than maybe you could say something but you can't say that about Judo or Aikido or [name your martial art here]. Maybe he's trying to draw an analogy about spreading yourself too thin and trying to fit arts that are too far apart or just don't fit.

                For me it's specialize after you've tried a number of arts and then cross-train - that way you can pick and choose what fits you.

                I think most of us have a tokui waza/favourite technique.
                Last edited by Mong; 3/08/2004 12:39am, .

                Comment


                  #9
                  God damn cultists. I hate the purity of form conception of martial arts beyond anything else. There is no such thing as purity in the martial arts or anything else human in origin.

                  Quote: It is therefore reasonable to ask, why then do teachers strive to revert to impure forms in terms of conglomerates. I say impure forms because when one mixes Judo with Aikido with Karate, etc., the new form cannot be said to be any of these.

                  So? Is the goal to have the student improve an grow as an individual or make him a slave to the system?

                  Each follows its own principles and when grouped together these principles are often in conflict and are, therefore, useless.

                  Thats why you don't teach principles you teach people. Damn Moron! You teach people how use principles as options not as rules. By testing a student learns how to find, make, and use principles for himself. He becomes an independant thinker testing his theories as a scientist would not just relying on someone else's dogma.



                  Quote: Further, the mixing of forms leads to a contamination of the Tokui Waza principle by diluting it.

                  If a "diluted" version works better for the student shouldn't he be allowed to grow in terms of his own strength?

                  Quote: Of course if one is quite large, very strong and has natural athletic ability, these techniques can be made to look very viable and effective. However, when normal men and women are faced with a threat of overpowering dimension, they must act instantly and directly with efficiency and speed. This can only be accomplished by the internalization of a Tokui Waza by studying a pure art form.

                  So Tokui Waza is perfect and is perfectly match to everyone's ability? Based on what?

                  Quote: This is the only effective answer for those of us that are not overlarge, overstrong, or athletic.

                  I guess he's saying: This stuff works believe me I am a follower of the God of Martial Arts so I know whats good for you.

                  Quote: We should be very thankful to the giant minds of the past such as Master Ueshiba and Dr. Kano, among other great thinkers in the arts who, through their discovery of the need for purification of the arts, made it possible for the common person (and as we grow old even the strongest among us becomes common) by pure study, to be able to achieve equal status with those among us who are gifted by natural size, strength and ability.

                  God forbid we should think for ourselves and learn to grow as individuals.

                  Quote: These men have given us a great gift. We would be foolish to throw these treasures away by reverting to a naturally contaminated process.

                  A contaminated process like Science and empirical testing. Wouldn't want to join the 21st century now would we?

                  Quote: Let us then take the pure lessons taught to us by these remarkable men and go forward, spreading to the least among us this knowledge and the self confidence that can only be achieved by the internalization of a pure art form.

                  And baptizing them in the name of Ueshiba and Kano. Hollowed be their names. Jihad on the infidels of MMA!
                  Burn Matt Thorton at the Stake!

                  Its this purity talk that gets people to fly planes into buildings! Behold the enemy. Bullshido incarnate!
                  Last edited by JackHanma; 3/08/2004 12:48am, .

                  Comment


                    #10
                    what i find interesting is that, offhand, the guys who invented the pure systems and were praised for being such great martial artists learned many different styles themselves.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      what the? that makes no sense at all... wheres the conflict?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        "wheres the conflict?"


                        If you make "Winning a fight" your only concern, there isn't one. He's talking out of his ass.
                        "You realise the transformations give a man enough strength to destroy a truck with his bare hands!?
                        YOU HAVE BETRAYED ME, IN THE WORST POSSIBLE MANNER!!" - KiWarrior

                        "Sport ? That kind of thing's not my bag baby!" - Sammy Franco

                        "This system was developed with the help of notible BJJ fighter Ribbon Muchado." - "Sifu" Anthony Iglesias

                        Comment


                          #13
                          " Each follows its own principles and when grouped together these principles are often in conflict and are, therefore, useless."

                          What? The principles of Karate, Judo and Aikido are nearly identical. It's the techniques that are different.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The principles of Karate and Aikido are no where near identical. Least not the aikido and karate I've been around, even here in Japan.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Dai-Tenshi
                              The principles of Karate and Aikido are no where near identical. Least not the aikido and karate I've been around, even here in Japan.
                              I agree, the principles I learn in karate and aikido are different-- in the article though....is the guy talking about mixing principles or simply techniques? I can't see how mixing techniques can be bad if they are effective. I mean isn't aikido an amalgimation of several martial arts, or isn't judo a refinement of different schools of jujitsu? And even in past centuries when martial arts were more useful, didn't competent warriors learn several arts to use as tools in the battlefield? Whether it be weapons systems or empty-handed systems, I was under the impression that successful warriors trained in several arts (archery, sword, staff, empty hand striking, grappling, knife, etc...). Mixing principles/philosophies though may be a whole other topic.
                              "Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration." -A. Lincoln

                              Vote your conscience.... Vote Libertarian!

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