Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

[Dojostormz]

Regarding your question ADMIN the answer is no but I have, awaiting a response. That's irrelevant however I think. In fact you may remove them if you deem it necessary.

The reason thats okay:

As you'll recall I stated that I emailed Ken Kronenberg for a public comment on the matter. I linked this thread and the websites in which Jay made his claim.

Today I received the following email from Ken Kronenberg, Head of Tai Kai and the man who (with Phil Migliarese) promoted Jordan Damon:::::::::::



I believe this answers all remaining questions.

[Dojostormz]

I believe this is proof that Mr. Anthony's and Mr. Russell's stories are fabricated. Remember, Mr. Anthony claimed to have spoken to this man. Mr. Anthony I believe, has clearly lied about his conversation with the Head of Tai Kai, Mr. Kronenberg.

[Dojostormz]

I would also like to say that this is very close to what Mr. Sanzo had said. It appears that all people who have intimate knowledge of the situation are in agreement.

[Dojostormz]

I have emailed Mr. Russell asking him to come back and address this new evidence.

[Dsimon3387]

my suggestion is for a a Bully to ask all the people involved a series of clear questions that indicate what each individual's answer is. There are ways to confirm identity like a photocopy of a driver's license.

Sam has confirmed my ID for proof I wanted to submit, so this has been done in the past.

Otherwise we get a he said this type game of telephone which is a waste. Each person who has made a statement regarding rank of Russell can do so to one person then the problem is solved.

/what do people think?

[jojo420]

Regarding your question ADMIN the answer is no but I have, awaiting a response. That's irrelevant however I think. In fact you may remove them if you deem it necessary.

The reason thats okay:

As you'll recall I stated that I emailed Ken Kronenberg for a public comment on the matter. I linked this thread and the websites in which Jay made his claim.

Today I received the following email from Ken Kronenberg, Head of Tai Kai and the man who (with Phil Migliarese) promoted Jordan Damon:::::::::::



I believe this answers all remaining questions.

PROOF from Mr. Damon's students in Watertown that Mr. Damon has been claiming hes a bjj black belt for many years before recently... Something about your "Ken Kronenberg" email isnt adding up...
http://nnyjudo.blogspot.com/2009/04/...mpionship.html

http://www.dustinbaker.net/

[jnp]

PROOF from Mr. Damon's students in Watertown that Mr. Damon has been claiming hes a bjj black belt for many years before recently... Something about your "Ken Kronenberg" email isnt adding up...
http://nnyjudo.blogspot.com/2009/04/...mpionship.html

http://www.dustinbaker.net/

Only one account is allowed per user RachaelK.

Violating our terms of service does not lend you any credibility.

[cbeatty]

Here is how I see things…If you have this much time to spend posting on the internet and researching Jiu-Jitsu lineage, you should really get a life.
I personally spent approximately 10 years of sweat, blood and tears earning my black belt and I am not challenging or questioning Jay Russell’s rank or affiliations. I am not sure who you are, nor do I care, but I would recommend you go to Jay’s academy and train with him, or issue a challenge match, to see if you think he is at BB level. I am sure he would be more than happy to accommodate you.
One thing I know for sure is that Jay was accepting challenge matches to prove the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu before most people had heard of Jiu-Jitsu or MMA. He has stepped onto the mat, into the cage, and on the street to test his skills.
Also, regarding his relationship with Jordan Damon… they were great friends and training partners. At one point, Jordan was probably one of the best light weights in the country.
Obviously you have some sort of ax to grind; but I would recommend you spend more time training and less time typing.

Chad Beatty
Spa City Jiu-Jitsu

[Dojostormz]

I consider this thread to be over. Let me summarize.

Jay claims that he got his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.

Tai-Kia- Brazialian Jiu-jitsu were I got My Black belt And continued to train with Jordan And fight under him for years to come.

Mr. Anthony came to Mr. Russell's defense and gave more detail to the story.

Jay has been training in Jiu Jitsu and martial arts for 19 years. He received his Blue belt and purple belt from Rigan Machado and Fabio Clemente both. After leaving Fabio and Rigans school Jay began training Brazilian Jiu Jitsu under Tai Kai Black Belt Jordan Damon at Tai Kai Jiu Jitsu. This is where Jay received both his brown and Black Belts. In honor of Jordan, Jay told everyone that he was a Jordan Damon Black belt because that is who his instructor was.

So, the claim that Mr. Russell makes:

Mr. Russell claims to have received his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.


This can be seen to be absolutely, 100% not true, as Ken Kronenberg, head of Tai Kai has refuted Jay's Claim and say's he has not seen Jay in over 10 years in this email:



Any concern about whether or not Mr. Damon has ever previously claimed to be a BB is irrelevant despite what RachaelK thinks, as both Mr. Russell and Mr. Anthony claim Jay got the belt from Tai Kai.

Furthermore Mr. Beatty, I have nothing but respect for you, I understand you have known Mr. Russell for a long time. However, I think the fact that you have not stood up for Mr. Russell and instead have said (roughly) that I should spend less time researching these things, is very telling. If you yourself believe Mr. Russell is blackbelt level, WHICH I would like to point out was NEVER in question here, perhaps you should give him one.

Unless I'm missing something, or my simple logic is somehow flawed, I think this matter is more or less settled.

[jnp]

One thing I know for sure is that Jay was accepting challenge matches to prove the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu before most people had heard of Jiu-Jitsu or MMA. He has stepped onto the mat, into the cage, and on the street to test his skills.

Obviously you have some sort of ax to grind; but I would recommend you spend more time training and less time typing.

Chad Beatty
Spa City Jiu-Jitsu

I find it discouraging that instead of addressing any questions about Mr. Russell's rank or lineage, you instead defend him by issuing an indirect challenge on his behalf. Based on your post, it appears you care more about defending Mr. Russell than you do about the integrity of our sport.

I have also spent ten years on the mat training BJJ, and even more if you count wrestling. Since I do not live at the dojo, I also have the time to post on the internet here at Bullshido. So please spare us the line about "Getting a life".

John Palmer

[It is Fake]

You just posted so, this is quite ironic.

Funny, I know Black Belts in BJJ, on this very website and others that do care about lineage.

I mean there is a list floating around that shows all of Carlos Gracie Sr.'s Black Belts. Even listing some that were removed from his lineage. I know the Gracie's and the Machado's list many of their promotions and students on the dreaded internets

Hell the Gracie's copyrighted their form of BJJ and will sue concerning their lineage.

One thing I know for sure is that Jay was accepting challenge matches to prove the effectiveness of Jiu-Jitsu before most people had heard of Jiu-Jitsu or MMA. He has stepped onto the mat, into the cage, and on the street to test his skills.

Obviously you have some sort of ax to grind; but I would recommend you spend more time training and less time typing.

Chad Beatty
Spa City Jiu-Jitsu

...and this relates to his lineage and BB BJJ claim how? Who said he was unskilled? Who said he wasn't a fighter?

[Sam Browning]

I consider this thread to be over. Let me summarize.

Jay claims that he got his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.
Mr. Anthony came to Mr. Russell's defense and gave more detail to the story.


So, the claim that Mr. Russell makes:

Mr. Russell claims to have received his BB from Tai Kai while training w/ Jordan Damon.


This can be seen to be absolutely, 100% not true, as Ken Kronenberg, head of Tai Kai has refuted Jay's Claim and say's he has not seen Jay in over 10 years in this email:



Any concern about whether or not Mr. Damon has ever previously claimed to be a BB is irrelevant despite what RachaelK thinks, as both Mr. Russell and Mr. Anthony claim Jay got the belt from Tai Kai.

Furthermore Mr. Beatty, I have nothing but respect for you, I understand you have known Mr. Russell for a long time. However, I think the fact that you have not stood up for Mr. Russell and instead have said (roughly) that I should spend less time researching these things, is very telling. If you yourself believe Mr. Russell is blackbelt level, WHICH I would like to point out was NEVER in question here, perhaps you should give him one.

Unless I'm missing something, or my simple logic is somehow flawed, I think this matter is more or less settled.

Unfortunately the matter is not settled. Threads like this one typically go on for months, often waiting for the subject, like Mr. Russell to provide a detailed explaination for their conduct.

Secondly IF Mr. Damon was presenting himself as a BJJ Black Belt before he earned this rank, there is little to separate him morally from Mr. Russell. I would like to hear Mr. Damon's explaination of screen save that was posted here by the advocate for Mr. Russell. If someone has his direct email I would be happy to invite him here to comment.

[NewYorkJiuJitsu]

Dojostormz,
You have just admitted your guilt by accusing my of saying something I never said. When in my response did I ever say I spoke to Ken Kronenberg? The answer is never. You like to fabricate things and it is very clear. Tai Kai existed long before it was taken over by team Balance and that school is no longer in existence. You need to do better research because you have no idea what you are talking about. Why dont you search the internet and find countless pictures and videos with Jordan Damon and a black belt around his waste. These are from years ago. Your personal vendetta has to be put to an end. Saying that I am a liar is going to get you nowhere because unlike you i researched all of this. Obviously out of everyone on this forum it would be most important for me to find out Jay Russel was a fraud since he teaches at my school. I have researched this day and night and have found no validity in anything you have said.

[Counsel.Gov]

As a 10+ year BJJ player who holds a law degree, I'd like to make the following (somewhat long-winded) comment(s) regarding the substance of this thread, for the allegations made (if factually correct) carry with them legal consequences for not only Mr. Russell, but NY Jiu-Jitsu as well.

While I understand and respect Mr. Beatty's post re: the zealousness of Dojostormz' attempts at discerning the true lineage of Mr. Russell (and the motivation for him doing so), I, for one, think it refreshing that a BJJ student should actually care enough about where he trains to research an instructor's credentials (and only he knows if his intentions are 'pure'). If nothing else, it tries to instill a bit of integrity into a system that was originally built upon a foundation of honor, discipline, and commitment. The world can always use a little bit more of that.....

If a consumer of BJJ made a decision to 1. bypass attending other area schools; and 2. attend Mr. Russell's school based on his/her reliance on a misrepresentation of material fact (that Mr. Russell had been a BJJ black belt for 10 years, when, in-fact, he was not), that is what the legal system calls "fraud" or "fraudulent misrepresentation" and it is actionable in a (civil) court of law. Let's be clear in this situation - the skill level, competitive accomplishments, and personal attributes of Mr. Russell are not the issue here (legally speaking). And based on Mr. Kronenberg's statement, it is not possible that Mr. Russell was awarded a BB at the time in question. Mr. Anthony's attempted explanation has done nothing but dig him and NYJJ into a deeper legal hole.

The above being said, common sense in this situation should prevail: Dojostormz - shut down the computer and get on the mat. Though I'm not sure how you'd be received at any school should your 'true identity' ever be revealed, if your commitment to training BJJ is anything like your commitment to finding factual inconsistencies, you should be earning your BB in no time; Mr. Russell - find a reputable BB instructor to evaluate your current skills, knowledge, etc., and do what it takes to earn a valid BB and restore your reputation in the BJJ community. No one can take way the 19+ years you have invested in martial arts; NYJJ/Mr. Anthony - Shame on you for not properly vetting your employees/instructors and attempting to sweep an otherwise a serious matter under the rug by providing a completely transparent and bogus explanation. If the common sense you failed to use had been on par with the money you invested in your school, you'd have one hell of a training facility.

[It is Fake]

Dojostormz,
You have just admitted your guilt by accusing my of saying something I never said. When in my response did I ever say I spoke to Ken Kronenberg? The answer is never. You like to fabricate things and it is very clear. Tai Kai existed long before it was taken over by team Balance and that school is no longer in existence. You need to do better research because you have no idea what you are talking about. Why dont you search the internet and find countless pictures and videos with Jordan Damon and a black belt around his waste. These are from years ago. Your personal vendetta has to be put to an end. Saying that I am a liar is going to get you nowhere because unlike you i researched all of this. Obviously out of everyone on this forum it would be most important for me to find out Jay Russel was a fraud since he teaches at my school. I have researched this day and night and have found no validity in anything you have said.

Pictures of people do not answer questions of rank. The subject is your BJJ ranking not what belt he is wearing in a photo or video without ocntext.