Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

[real faixa roxa]

Thanks for the post, but what is your proof of this?

What do you know about his judo black belt?

he told me himself when i asked him about it. jay said it was given to him after i believe he said "the empire state games". i also asked who gave him his bjj BB- to which he said jordan damon. he claims that allan goes-jordan damon-jay russell lineage. i asked allan goes on facebook if they were his BB's, he replied NO, I have 7 BB's all in California. i also was one one of Jays early students- ripped off like many others. he has asked forgiveness and i gave it to him. people do make mistakes but , to continually lie to everyone like he's doing is showing poor character and no honor. he doesn't respect anyone ;especially the peoples names he drags into the web of deceit.

[DarkPhoenix]

he told me himself when i asked him about it. jay said it was given to him after i believe he said "the empire state games". i also asked who gave him his bjj BB- to which he said jordan damon. he claims that allan goes-jordan damon-jay russell lineage. i asked allan goes on facebook if they were his BB's, he replied NO, I have 7 BB's all in California. i also was one one of Jays early students- ripped off like many others. he has asked forgiveness and i gave it to him. people do make mistakes but , to continually lie to everyone like he's doing is showing poor character and no honor. he doesn't respect anyone ;especially the peoples names he drags into the web of deceit.

Okay, last I checked they do not have batsugan rules in the Empire State Games. That isn't just a little tourney, that is basically the NYS Olympics.

Sam-I will email USJF and USJI for clarification on his status, if any, in Judo. I am pretty sure there is NO way he got his judo BB at the Empir State Games as that is a USJI sanctioned thing.


EDIT: I checked the rolls of the Empire State games going back as far at 1997, and Jay Russell is on none of them for judo.

http://www.empirestategames.org/summ...ault.asp?year=


EDIT #2: I have emailed both USJF and USJI in regards to Jay Russell judo grading. USJF does allow for batsugan in a local sanctioned tourney and the person has to beat 5 players of the same rank by ippon (throw, submission, or 25 sec pin) in one tourney to even be consider for it. It isn't automatic either, as it goes towards that persons promotion points.


http://www.usjf.com/public/rank_requirement.pdf

[DuckofDeath]

USJF does allow for batsugan in a local sanctioned tourney and the person has to beat 5 players of the same rank by ippon (throw, submission, or 25 sec pin) in one tourney to even be consider for it. It isn't automatic either, as it goes towards that persons promotion points.

So you would already have to be at the highest level of brown belt, and then consecutively beat 5 players of that rank or higher, by ippon (winning throw, pin, or submission), to earn points that would count towards promotion to black belt, correct?

[DuckofDeath]

I did not hear anything about Jay until a few years ago. A few years ago I saw on myspace a page that said Black Belt by Jordan Damon. I talked to Jordan about it, He said you know Jay and his craziness and drama. I said you should tell him to take it off cause it makes you look bad. Jordan was a brown belt at the time. Jay even put together highlight films etc. Jordan said he talked to Jay about it. we always laughed about it. Jordan probably said to him one time. you are good you should be a black belt./ which is a comment that people say sometimes. Only an idiot would hear that comment and make himself a black belt.

I'm understanding this to mean that "a few years ago" Jordan Damon was a brown belt in BJJ.

Now Jay would indeed have to be an idiot if he made himself a BJJ black belt after a BJJ brown belt told him that he was good enough to be a BJJ black belt.

[Rene "Zendokan" Gysenbergs]

So you would already have to be at the highest level of brown belt, and then consecutively beat 5 players of that rank or higher, by ippon (winning throw, pin, or submission), to earn points that would count towards promotion to black belt, correct?

Yes and No...

Yes, if you are already a Judoka it will go to your promotion points.

No, if you come from another grappling style that can fight under the Judo ruleset, most known compatable styles would be (sport) SAMBO and Wrestling (with maybe a preferance of Greco-Roman above Freestyle) and two lesser known styles would be Shuai Jiao or Kurash, then you would get a Judo BB.

Now in the second case, there aren't many fighters from other styles that can and have pulled off batsugan. At this moment only Ron Tripp comes to mind.

Another problem is that he claims to have done batsugan at the Empire State Games. Those games are even known in Europe and the level of skill of the Judoka competing there is quit high.

So if he went batsugan there as a Judoka his name would be known in the Judo world in the same manner as Eddie Bravo's name was known after the ADCC where he beat Royler Gracie.
If he was there as a non-Judoka he would have been already a house-hold name in his style.

[DarkPhoenix]

Hey guys.

I got a reply from USJF.

Dear Mr. Wildeuer,

I cannot find any record for Jay Russell or Jay Shannon Russell in our membership records.

Renee
On Sep 24, 2010, at 2:48 PM, WordPress wrote:


You had an inquiry from the USJF Website:
Regarding: Other
Name: Craig Wildfeuer Jr
Email: zsnyper@gmail.com
Comment:
Good afternoon,

I am writing looking to see if you have a Jay Russell or a Jay Shannon Russell in your memberships rolls. There have been some inquiries as to the validity of his black belt judo ranking, and I would just like to clear it up.

Thanks

Craig Wildfeuer
Go Rin Dojo
USJA

[Sam Browning]

One more to go :)

[DuckofDeath]

I did a Google search on "'Jay Russel' judo" and came up with a hit on his cached myspace page from which I copied and pasted the excerpt below:

"Jay Russell is a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-jitsu under Jordan Damon (a Carlson Gracie Jr. Black Belt). He has dedicated his life to teaching martial arts and has led many of his students to world class level competition. He has competed in King of the Cage, Mass Destruction, and various other MMA organizations. He has also competed in many Judo and Wrestling tournaments."

Now if he had competed in "many" Judo tournaments, wouldn't he have been required to have a membership card for the particular judo body sponsoring the tournament or be asked to sign up for membership before he would be allowed to compete?

[DuckofDeath]

"'Jay Russel' judo"

Make that "'Jay Russell' judo".

[It is Fake]

Now if he had competed in "many" Judo tournaments, wouldn't he have been required to have a membership card for the particular judo body sponsoring the tournament or be asked to sign up for membership before he would be allowed to compete?

We had this discussion concerning someone else. It would be very rare if not highly improbable to have this occur. The only way would be to compete in an unsanctioned event. After much research that would be very rare as well.

The comment of "many" just makes me think it is an exaggeration.

[DuckofDeath]

Here's a mention of a Jay Russell in the 1998 AAU National Grappling Championships hosted by Judo America:

http://www.judoamerica.com/results/grapple98.shtml

Don't know if it's our man or not.

[It is Fake]

That's one of the two orgs that are considered independent. So, he could very well be a Judo BB under the AAU.

So, now we have to research Elite Jujitsu (no the BJJ team that pope up) an see if they still exist and what his rank was and if they cross ranked in AAU Judo as Judo Black belts.

[DuckofDeath]

I also noticed that the facebook page for New York Jiu Jitsu still has him listed as a "BJJ Black Belt":

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=85210226231

[DarkPhoenix]

That's one of the two orgs that are considered independent. So, he could very well be a Judo BB under the AAU.

AAU hasn't issued any rank in Judo for quite some time.

[DuckofDeath]

I also noticed that the facebook page for New York Jiu Jitsu still has him listed as a "BJJ Black Belt":

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=85210226231

Well that was fast; the "BJJ Black Belt" reference is gone now.