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Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage.

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    Originally posted by DuckofDeath View Post
    It looks like it's got a simple, unadorned red sleeve on it.

    Click on the pic in the newspaper link to enlarge it and you'll see that the belt around Jordan Damon's waist has a red sleeve bordered by a couple of little white bands.

    http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/a...WS03/309249987

    Now look at this Team Balance lineage list to which Jordan Damon's name will soon be added. Do you see the little white borders on the red sleeves of the belt icons?

    http://balancestudios.net/about/bala...ge-migliarese/

    Interesting coincidence, no?

    Remember, Mr. Kronenberg didn't say it was specifically a Kempo belt. He said it might have been and then showed they looked similar. It's also possible that was a belt form Mr. Damon's hybrid JJ style.

    As far as the Team Balance representation of a BB, with the white at the end of the red, as a BJJ player you should know that BJJ belts are commonly represented that way. It's not unique to Team Balance.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Dojostormz View Post
      As far as the Team Balance representation of a BB, with the white at the end of the red, as a BJJ player you should know that BJJ belts are commonly represented that way. It's not unique to Team Balance.
      You do know that is exactly what he is drawing attention to? He is pointing out, for others that do not practice BJJ or didn't notice, the difference between a Kempo belt as alluded to by kakronen and a BJJ BB.

      Comment


        Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
        You do know that is exactly what he is drawing attention to? He is pointing out, for others that do not practice BJJ or didn't notice, the difference between a Kempo belt as alluded to by kakronen and a BJJ BB.

        The way I interpreted it was that he was saying that the belt Mr. Damon was wearing was a Team Balance style BJJ belt. That it was unique to team balance.

        I was just pointing out that it is a generic JJ style belt, not tied directly to Team Balance.

        Comment


          I have been following along with this thread since it was started. To say that I feel deceived, hurt, and disappointed is an understatement. No one can understand how I feel. This thread has made it very clear that I have been disowned by the people who did give me my blackbelt. Jordan Damon was like a brother to me and to see that he is denying my lineage is probably the most hurtful thing that has ever been done to me. What hurts me more is that people now doubt me. I swear on my life that I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt under Jordan Damon. Both Jordan Damon and Ken Kronenberg were blackbelts when I received mine. This was somewhere around the year 2001. Since this ordeal started on the internet Jordan called me and left a message on my machine saying sorry for the way things are going but I'm with balance now so I can't give you rank because I just got mine, the rank I had before wasn't accurate. I assume this is the same situation with Ken Kronenberg. I have found two articles stating this information, http://home.cogeco.ca/~mmafighter/instructors.html. and [/COLOR]http://www.onthemat.com/articles/Bri...1_01_2003.html[COLOR=#000000]. I have also found numerous articles written about Ken stating he was a Tai Kai Machado Black belt in 2004. This is very strange since he was promoted by Phil in 2007. Look on the internet and see how many black belt fights Jordan did throughout the years. The picture on here doesnt lie not only was he a blackbelt but he had stripes on his belt. Ken and Jordan are trying to hide this scandal from everyone because they want to save themselves. However they are ruining my name by doing this. I hate to call both of these men out but I have no choice. Its either them or me and I am not going to sacrifice all that I have worked for for two people that are ruining my life. I am now in a very tough situation and dont know what to do. Why would I want to represent Jordan Damon now? He has lied to everyone and they are all trying to cover up something. Was he never a real BJJ Blackbelt? Is my belt not real? What do I do from here. I have talked to my boss at New York Jiu Jitsu and have explained this all to him and until this mess is cleared up he has removed my lineage and rank from all material. I have only told my employer and students what I was told by Jordan Damon and that is, that I am a Black Belt under him.
          Last edited by jnp; 9/23/2010 3:17pm, . Reason: Changed text color from black to white to make post visible

          Comment


            Originally posted by kakronen View Post
            he has always and always said his correct rank in BJJ and has not tried to deceieve anyone whatsoever. there is no deception to uncover.
            So if someone had asked him a year ago what his correct rank in BJJ was, he would have said that he was something other than a black belt, correct? So then why on God's green earth would he put on a black belt from some other art and pose for a newspaper photo accompanying an article about the opening of a Relson Gracie affiliate school whose specialty is BJJ?

            Even the infamous Gene Simco, after having begun to teach BJJ wearing his traditional jiu-jitsu black belt, later voluntarily "stripped himself" of that belt and resumed teaching wearing his BJJ purple belt.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Dojostormz View Post
              The way I interpreted it was that he was saying that the belt Mr. Damon was wearing was a Team Balance style BJJ belt. That it was unique to team balance.

              I was just pointing out that it is a generic JJ style belt, not tied directly to Team Balance.
              Funny how he made sure to point out the difference.

              You don't know what that other BB represents for sure. Now, I understand Simo's comment about annoyance.

              Comment


                Mr. Russell..

                To make following this thread a little clearer I would Like you to answer the following questions if you'd be kind enough.

                1. What date were you promoted to BJJ Black Belt ?

                2. Who tested you for that grade ?

                3. Did you receive a certificate or any other document which supported that grade ?

                4. Did Mr. Damon tell you personally he was a BJJ Black belt when you studied with him as a student ?

                5. Were you studying only BJJ under Damon ?

                6. Can you explain the previous enquiry in this thread about other lineage claims allegedly made by you in the public domain ?

                I realise this situation isn't easy for you but we'd appreciate your continued contribution to this thread.

                Thank you

                Comment


                  Originally posted by pluma134 View Post
                  I have been following along with this thread since it was started. To say that I feel deceived, hurt, and disappointed is an understatement. No one can understand how I feel. This thread has made it very clear that I have been disowned by the people who did give me my blackbelt.
                  Are you saying they cut ties with you?

                  Jordan Damon was like a brother to me and to see that he is denying my lineage is probably the most hurtful thing that has ever been done to me.
                  Jordan Damon said you are no longer tied together or is he denying that he promoted you to Black Belt? There is a huge difference between the two comments.


                  What hurts me more is that people now doubt me. I swear on my life that I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt under Jordan Damon. Both Jordan Damon and Ken Kronenberg were blackbelts when I received mine. This was somewhere around the year 2001. Since this ordeal started on the internet Jordan called me and left a message on my machine saying sorry for the way things are going but I'm with balance now so I can't give you rank because I just got mine, the rank I had before wasn't accurate.
                  Interesting comment. I hope you saved that message because, it would clear up a ton of misinformation. Actually, it would show that YOU were deceived and not the one possibly doing the deceiving. Check your state laws and see if you can post a mp.3 clip.

                  I assume this is the same situation with Ken Kronenberg. I have found two articles stating this information, http://home.cogeco.ca/~mmafighter/instructors.html. and [/COLOR]http://www.onthemat.com/articles/Bri...1_01_2003.html[COLOR=#000000]. I have also found numerous articles written about Ken stating he was a Tai Kai Machado Black belt in 2004. This is very strange since he was promoted by Phil in 2007.

                  Well, if you want an investigation done on Kronenberg start another thread.

                  Look on the internet and see how many black belt fights Jordan did throughout the years. The picture on here doesnt lie not only was he a blackbelt but he had stripes on his belt.
                  Yes, again as I just told Dojostomz no one has told us what the BB is in. Is it Hybrid JJ, Kempo, another style etc etc etc. What Dod is pointing out is that BJJ uses a specific type of belt. The picture leads down another road but, it is not the scope of this thread about you.

                  Ken and Jordan are trying to hide this scandal from everyone because they want to save themselves. However they are ruining my name by doing this. I hate to call both of these men out but I have no choice. Its either them or me and I am not going to sacrifice all that I have worked for for two people that are ruining my life.

                  You may be correct. Interestingly enough, you had ample time to give questions and instead had a bunch of people post. Unfortunately, you should have been open from the start.

                  I am now in a very tough situation and dont know what to do. Why would I want to represent Jordan Damon now? He has lied to everyone and they are all trying to cover up something. Was he never a real BJJ Blackbelt? Is my belt not real? What do I do from here. I have talked to my boss at New York Jiu Jitsu and have explained this all to him and until this mess is cleared up he has removed my lineage and rank from all material. I have only told my employer and students what I was told by Jordan Damon and that is, that I am a Black Belt under him.
                  Look it sucks that this has happened and it doesn't taint your skills. The thing is the whole situation stinks. Apparently, these questions have existed for YEARS. So, you all are culpable in one fashion or another.

                  Comment


                    Earlier in the thread I stated I wanted to ask Mr. Kronenberg a couple of questions, I apologise for the delay but its been a long one at work for me.

                    Anyway, Mr. Kronenberg, I recognise you're a busy man and wish to say I appreciate you taking the time to post here, I only really have one question for you to confirm.

                    Has the Tai Kai ever graded Mr. Jay Russell to Black Belt in BJJ ?

                    I realise you've stated that it was "impossible" for anyone to have graded Mr. Russell in a previous statement however, given that Mr. Russell clearly disputes this, I'd like to have you simply confirm that one last time.

                    Thank you.
                    Last edited by Rock Ape; 9/23/2010 4:16pm, .

                    Comment


                      Mr. Russell. If you are telling the truth, it would help if you could scan a copy of any black belt certificate in BJJ that Mr. Damon awarded you which would presumably have his signature on it, and the date of the award.
                      Last edited by Sam Browning; 9/23/2010 6:43pm, .

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                        Are you saying they cut ties with you?

                        Jordan Damon said you are no longer tied together or is he denying that he promoted you to Black Belt? There is a huge difference between the two comments.



                        Interesting comment. I hope you saved that message because, it would clear up a ton of misinformation. Actually, it would show that YOU were deceived and not the one possibly doing the deceiving. Check your state laws and see if you can post a mp.3 clip.



                        Well, if you want an investigation done on Kronenberg start another thread.



                        Yes, again as I just told Dojostomz no one has told us what the BB is in. Is it Hybrid JJ, Kempo, another style etc etc etc. What Dod is pointing out is that BJJ uses a specific type of belt. The picture leads down another road but, it is not the scope of this thread about you.




                        You may be correct. Interestingly enough, you had ample time to give questions and instead had a bunch of people post. Unfortunately, you should have been open from the start.

                        Look it sucks that this has happened and it doesn't taint your skills. The thing is the whole situation stinks. Apparently, these questions have existed for YEARS. So, you all are culpable in one fashion or another.
                        If Jordan left a message on Jay's machine, he knew he was being recorded in real time and gave his consent by leaving this message. This message can be posted here. Alternatively, since New York is a one party state, as long as both parties were in New York at the time of the call, and one party to the call was doing the recording, this recording is legal. See the Bill O'Reilly case.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Samuel Browning View Post
                          Mr. Russell. If you are telling the truth, it would help if you could scan a copy of any black belt certificate in BJJ that Mr. Damon awarded you which would presumably have his signature on it, and the date of the award.
                          Same as above, except substititue "the head of Tai-Kai in Delaware" for "Mr. Damon." If Jay Russell and Jordan Damon had to go all the way to Delaware for Mr. Russell's formal belt presentation--as related by Edward Anthony--you'd think there would have been a certificate and photos from the occasion.

                          Comment


                            Here's an interesting little tidbit. Apparently Jordan Damon's Jiu-Jitsu Nation business partner Marc Stevens was featured in a TUF segment shot back in June and July. Scroll down to him in the link below. His blurb states that he trains with "Gracie Black Belt Jordan Damon."

                            http://www.fightbomb.com/Fight-Sched...ighter-12.html

                            Comment


                              Point of admin.

                              Mr. Russell made this post No BS MMA and Martial Arts - View Single Post - Jay Russell - Albany,NY - Questions about his BJJ Black Belt and BJJ lineage. yesterday however it fell foul of the forums anti-spam feature (as did one of my own posts within this very thread) thus it remained unapproved and not visible to anyone other than forum moderators and staff.

                              I received a short email alerting me to this effect:

                              Originally posted by NewYorkJujitsu
                              Hello,
                              Jay told me that he sent in a post explaining everything and that it said it was waiting for apporval. This post answers lots of questions why hasnt it been put up yet?
                              As soon as I read that mail, I checked the post in question and approved it.

                              As with my own post which had exactly that same issue, I cannot provide a definitive answer why this happened however, I offer Mr. Russell an apology for the delay in his post becoming fully visible within the thread.

                              That said, I would still like Mr. Russell to answer the questions put to him by myself and others.

                              Dave

                              Comment


                                I am reposting my original message as I feel it wasn’t posted in a timely manner and may not have been seen by all. I also feel this post answers many of the questions that have been asked of me. I do not have a certificate stating the fact that I am a black belt under Jordan and would like to point out that it was common back then not to receive a certificate as many others also don’t have a certificate.
                                Again I feel that I have answered all the questions that have been asked of me and I will not answer any more questions. This thread now should turn its attention to Jordan to answer questions about the discrepancies shown in this thread regarding the timing of his own black belts which are ultimately the issue here.
                                Below is my original post.
                                > I have been following along with this thread since it was started. To say that I feel deceived, hurt, and disappointed is an understatement. No one can understand how I feel. This thread has made it very clear that I have been disowned by the people who did give me my blackbelt. Jordan Damon was like a brother to me and to see that he is denying my lineage is probably the most hurtful thing that has ever been done to me. What hurts me more is that people now doubt me. I swear on my life that I am a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu black belt under Jordan Damon. Both Jordan Damon and Ken Kronenberg were blackbelts when I received mine. This was somewhere around the year 2001. Since this ordeal started on the internet Jordan called me and left a message on my machine saying sorry for the way things are going but I'm with balance now so I can't give you rank because I just got mine, the rank I had before wasn't accurate. I assume this is the same situation with Ken Kronenberg. I have found two articles stating this information, http://home.cogeco.ca/~mmafighter/instructors.html. and http://www.onthemat.com/articles/Brian_Cimins_Interview_01_01_2003.html. I have also found numerous articles written about Ken stating he was a Tai Kai Machado Black belt in 2004. This is very strange since he was promoted by Phil in 2007. Look on the internet and see how many black belt fights Jordan did throughout the years. The picture on here doesn’t lie not only was he a blackbelt but he had stripes on his belt. Ken and Jordan are trying to hide this scandal from everyone because they want to save themselves. However they are ruining my name by doing this. I hate to call both of these men out but I have no choice. Its either them or me and I am not going to sacrifice all that I have worked for for two people that are ruining my life. I am now in a very tough situation and don’t know what to do. Why would I want to represent Jordan Damon now? He has lied to everyone and they are all trying to cover up something. Was he never a real BJJ Blackbelt? Is my belt not real? What do I do from here? I have talked to my boss at New York Jiu Jitsu and have explained this all to him and until this mess is cleared up he has removed my lineage and rank from all material. I have only told my employer and students what I was told by Jordan Damon and that is, that I am a Black Belt under him.

                                Comment

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