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    Help me understand Martin Luther king jr

    I have recently devoted alot of time trying to understand Martin Luther King jr. Dr King won the fight against segregation with non violence. I don't understand how that could be done??

    I am not making much sense here but I know that there is something here that I can learn.

    One thing that especially fascinates me is that he didn't differ between people. He said "justice is indivisible, injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere". He weren't afraid of being "unAmerican" when he knew that America did something wrong. America was ofc his side and he stated many times that he loves his country. It takes an immense strength to do something like that. some of his friends left him and people called him a traitor. In comparison how many of us was pro bombing the shit out of iraq before the war compared to now. It was a well known fact that the U.S government allowed torture of P.O.W.
    They just called it something else.

    Dr King spooke of the three evil "ism's". Racism, materialism and militarism. He said that we must turn away from a society witch values material goods over people.

    So yeah.. help me understand this please. How can non fighting people defeat people with guns, batons, dogs, water canons, tear gas and you name it.

    I would like to truly understand Dr king's ideas.

    #2
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      #3
      Well, like Gandhi, non-violence worked because the US, like England, had a soul.

      Had either of them attempted their methods against the Nazi's, they would have been matched off to the Ovens like everyone else.

      Therein is the difference.
      "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

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        #4
        Mark tripp is right. Through the Boer war and the Zulu war and the overall environment of colonialist oppression ghandi succeeded only because of the oppositions inherently pacifistic ways. Had anyone been actually getting killed the moral and philosophical validity of his stance would have been invalidated, obviously.

        Sarcasm off: UglyBugly, how fondly do you or people around you remember violent rebels through history? What do you think of the secession of the confederacy, or native americans raiding and pillaging american settlements, or coups in places like Sudan or Cuba?

        Now, how do you feel about blacks in america, or the trail of tears, or oppression in nazi germany, or protests in Tiananmen Square?

        What do you think of conservatives bombing abortion clinics and murdering professionals in that field? How about nonviolent gay rights movements?

        There isnt a clear 'this way is better' answer for how to change society, but nonviolent resistance definitely sends a really damn strong message. Martyrdom promotes sympathy and understanding for a cause far better than murder. Not to mention a lot of people feel it is simply morally wrong to escalate.

        The fact that you even want to understand him 50 years later says something about the impact his method had.
        Last edited by Suprore; 4/30/2010 12:31pm, .

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          #5
          Mark had a good point there. If we look at what happened last year in Iran. The Iranian goverment along with the basiji butchered their own people in cold blood.
          The Iranian people tried to keep it non violent and it didn't work. Here is a strange thing about Iran. How can the citizens of Iran be so decent when their government is such beasts?

          @suprore hard to say anything back at you but I understand your point of view.
          I will say this. My grandfather was a saboteur during the second world war. He helped bomb local installations that the Germans used. If Germany had won then he would be labeled a terrorist. Instead he is viewed as a hero.

          to the mods. Don't worry about the fact that this is not a conspiracy theory.
          Here it is. I just didn't want to start with it
          YouTube- Martin Luther King, Jr.'s last speech

          This is his last speech. This was the day before he was killed. It is like he knows that he is going to die soon. He was always threaten so I can't imagine that this would give some kind of indication for him.

          What do you guys make of this?

          I know this is a forum dedicated for conspiracy's and such but we need abit of creative space. Discussing Dr King's method is not a waste of bandwidth.

          Comment


            #6
            to the mods. Don't worry about the fact that this is not a conspiracy theory.
            Well since you choose not to follow the rules, don't start another thread when Steve comes in and locks the thread down.
            This belongs on sociocide.

            Do more research and you'll see it wasn't prophetic. It was understanding the history before you and the time period.

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              #7
              The civil rights movement experienced success because of sympathetic white people.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
                Do more research and you'll see it wasn't prophetic. It was understanding the history before you and the time period.
                what do you mean? are you saying that Dr King realized that he was going to die because of the massive hate manifested in that society ++ that he had become somewhat of a political threat?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Uglybugly View Post
                  what do you mean? are you saying that Dr King realized that he was going to die because of the massive hate manifested in that society ++ that he had become somewhat of a political threat?
                  Do some research and you tell me.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Uglybugly View Post
                    Mark had a good point there. If we look at what happened last year in Iran. The Iranian goverment along with the basiji butchered their own people in cold blood.
                    Huge exaggeration to say butchered. Rounded up, unfairly imprisoned, some beaten up by riot police (could've happened in CA!), put in worse-than-US jails systems where some were tortured, sure. Egypt is our buddy and their prison system is notoriously harsh on any type of political prisoners. And like you yourself pointed out, the U.S. tortured people and called it something else. It's bad but not butchery. We're always talking Iran up because we always need to have some great evil regime to fear.

                    The Iranian people tried to keep it non violent and it didn't work. Here is a strange thing about Iran. How can the citizens of Iran be so decent when their government is such beasts?
                    I'm not saying they're great, but the ME has a lot of shitty governments, some of whom we're buds with, while Iran is probably about the 3rd most free of all the ME societies.

                    Question for you: do you think the people in the U.S. government are for the most part are more decent than other country's governments?

                    I ask because personally I think it's more every rich person is in politics for themselves exploiting whatever system is in place as much as they can get away with for the most personal wealth. People in the U.S. have grown accustomed to a higher minimum standard of living/rights, but if we had our shit together a bit less in this country and people were used to having less, our government would be exploiting us more as well.
                    Last edited by maofas; 4/30/2010 2:48pm, .

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Uglybugly View Post
                      Mark had a good point there. If we look at what happened last year in Iran. The Iranian goverment along with the basiji butchered their own people in cold blood.
                      The Iranian people tried to keep it non violent and it didn't work. Here is a strange thing about Iran. How can the citizens of Iran be so decent when their government is such beasts?
                      It didn't work?

                      I was under the impression they (rebels and criminals by their nation's standards) gained a massive outpour of public support all over the world.

                      That's a much bigger blow to their opposition than a few bombs wouldve achieved. It's not like Iran's history is over.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by maofas View Post
                        Question for you: do you think the people in the U.S. government are for the most part are more decent than other country's governments?

                        I ask because personally I think it's more every rich person is in politics for themselves exploiting whatever system is in place as much as they can get away with for the most personal wealth. People in the U.S. have grown accustomed to a higher minimum standard of living/rights, but if we had our shit together a bit less in this country and people were used to having less, our government would be exploiting us more as well.
                        I read somewhere that some republicans made a law that made it legal for politicians to accept money from whomever. No need to explain what the money was for etc. This is ofc what we call a legal bribe. I have lost my source on this. I will post it if I find it again. There was something about Obama had made some new rules on this.. all money gifts etc must be registered in a public registry so normal people can see what the politicians are doing.

                        we share the same view on American politics. something that is very strange seen through European eyes is the behavior of your politicians.
                        Last incident I heard about was some guy yelling baby killer.. This is things kids do.

                        Originally posted by maofas View Post
                        We're always talking Iran up because we always need to have some great evil regime to fear.
                        your onto something here. I guess it is easier for people to unite when there is an external threat. what do you think?

                        Originally posted by Suprore View Post
                        It didn't work?

                        I was under the impression they (rebels and criminals by their nation's standards) gained a massive outpour of public support all over the world.

                        That's a much bigger blow to their opposition than a few bombs wouldve achieved. It's not like Iran's history is over.
                        Your right. Iran's history is not over but they weren't able to get a fair election and it was blatant obvious that this election was rigged. It is like my grandfather story. The winning side will be remembered in a favorable way in the end or? maybe not.. probably not from a global perspective atleast.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I'll try again...

                          The "non-violent" approach of Gandhi, and used by others, only works if the person you are using it on has a soul. If they do not, they will just march you off to the oven or shoot you where you stand.

                          Now, say what you will, but that is the simple truth. Its why it worked against the British. It would have never worked against the Nazi's.

                          Oh, FYI, might want to take a long look at the fund raising the Clinton's did before you pass off Bull Crap as the truth. Also, why not take a look at how much money Goldman gave to our current President....

                          But hey, lets not let the truth get in the way of a good revision of history.
                          "Out of every hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back." -- Hericletus, circa 500 BC

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                            #14
                            Good lord Ugly I'm saving Steve the trouble. Sociocide uses the same login and password.

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Uglybugly View Post
                              I know this is a forum dedicated for conspiracy's and such but we need abit of creative space. Discussing Dr King's method is not a waste of bandwidth.
                              Since you are freeloading off of the bandwidth paid for by others, shut the fuck up.


                              Take it to Sociocide. Thread locked.

                              However, since Arizona is once again in the news for this kind of stupid shit, this seems to be the appropriate way to end this thread:

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