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Who Says There Is No MA Angle On 9/11?

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    Who Says There Is No MA Angle On 9/11?

    I have been looking closely at the various work that has been done by the Truther and Debunker communities on the Twin Tower collapses, trying to work it out for myself rationally.

    I did some reading on progressive collapse in domino systems and confirmed my intuition that domino chains fall at a constant rate. I wondered whether vertical domino chains would also fall at a constant rate, and finally looked at these:

    (up to about 1:00) YouTube- 02.mp4
    YouTube- 33 Bricks World Record
    YouTube- breaking 35 bricks

    I'm working on quantifying the rate of collapse in the breaking demos, but my estimate so far are that it's pretty close.

    This has implication for 9/11 research of any variety, because the official "Pancake Collapse" theory of the WTC collapse events would be constrained in the same way as the multi brick breaks above (ie: constrained to a constant rate of collapse). I am still digging for good measurememnts of what was actually observed, but I don't believe the towers actually fell at a constant rate. It seems they accelerated.

    Food for thought.

    No tinfoil hats please <:)
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/04/2010 12:18pm, .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

    #2
    Its called physics and proper engineering.

    Look up terminal velocity.
    Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

    Comment


      #3
      Interesting premise. As you guys are scientists and my training stopped at basic physics I'll ask a question.


      Wouldn't the plane strikes change the collapse as well basically, negating the brick breaks you posted?

      To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
        Its called physics and proper engineering.
        Mentioning Physics and Engineering in a sentence is not the same as explaining what you mean.

        Seriously, what aspect of the subject are you commenting on?

        Look up terminal velocity.
        Really?!

        Thinking about terminal velocity is what got me started down this road to begin with.
        Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


        KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

        In De Janerio, in blackest night,
        Luta Livre flees the fight,
        Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
        Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
          To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.
          That's absolutely correct. The planes did not stike straight down. The official explanation to date is that the floors above the plane-hit dropped like a hammer after their structure failed, and hit the undamaged structure hard enough to collapse one floor to the next (to the next... etc)

          I was observing that this should tend to converge on a constant rate of collapse (like dominos). The fact that I can't find that sort of thing in the videos of the event leads me to think someone wasn't doing their job when they were asked to analyse this for the government.
          Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/04/2010 1:10pm, .
          Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


          KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

          In De Janerio, in blackest night,
          Luta Livre flees the fight,
          Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
          Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
            Interesting premise. As you guys are scientists and my training stopped at basic physics I'll ask a question.


            Wouldn't the plane strikes change the collapse as well basically, negating the brick breaks you posted?

            To clarify the planes didn't strike directly down like the forearm brick break videos.
            For reference:

            YouTube- WTC Collapse Sim - Quick Demo

            It gets pretty hard to keep track of where the collapse front if after a while, but you will notice that the real and free-fall-sim towers are close to keeping pace in the first half of the vid.
            The real tower lags somewhat, but really not too much at all.
            If you watch the velocity readout for the sim on the left, you will see that it is accelerating.
            Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


            KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

            In De Janerio, in blackest night,
            Luta Livre flees the fight,
            Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
            Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

            Comment


              #7
              Thank you.

              Comment


                #8
                Don't forget to account for the non-traditional construction of the Towers. Instead of being held up by thick supporting columns the towers were constructed with flexible supports on the outside that were then joined by the floors to achieve rigidity. The collapse could have triggered a "zipper effect" where the exterior supports were ripped off the floors below as the mass of the buildings travelled downward.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Physics is self explanatory. The floors are falling objects is really quite simple what will happen when gravity takes a hold of them.

                  Engineering is also self explanatory. The towers were built in a city and engineered in such a way that if there was a failure or a need to remove them this pancake effect would happen.

                  People are quick to take on the most far fetched explanation for an event and dismiss the simplest explanation.

                  Take for example this. Which will hit the ground first a bullet dropped from 5ft or a bullet fired straight from 5 feet?
                  Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Vorpal View Post
                    Don't forget to account for the non-traditional construction of the Towers. Instead of being held up by thick supporting columns the towers were constructed with flexible supports on the outside that were then joined by the floors to achieve rigidity. The collapse could have triggered a "zipper effect" where the exterior supports were ripped off the floors below as the mass of the buildings travelled downward.
                    This is really not correct. The Towers were held up by thick supporting columns.

                    Here is a random vid that shows the size, number and location of the central columns pretty well. The content is really not important. I picked it because it a very accurate model of the Towers' design, and plent of different views.

                    YouTube- WTC Finite Element Analysis

                    0:40 is a good place to start if you want to see the core.
                    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                    Luta Livre flees the fight,
                    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
                      Physics is self explanatory. The floors are falling objects is really quite simple what will happen when gravity takes a hold of them.
                      If you think this is a simple problem you aren't thinking it through.

                      Engineering is also self explanatory. The towers were built in a city and engineered in such a way that if there was a failure or a need to remove them this pancake effect would happen.
                      reference please(!)
                      Note: you realize you are accusing the architect of mass murder right?

                      People are quick to take on the most far fetched explanation for an event and dismiss the simplest explanation.
                      You think my suspicion that the rate of floor collapse in a pancake scenario converges on a constant is far fetched? How so?

                      Take for example this. Which will hit the ground first a bullet dropped from 5ft or a bullet fired straight from 5 feet?
                      Simultaneous in a vacuum. No educated person believes otherwise.
                      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                      Luta Livre flees the fight,
                      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
                        Simultaneous in a vacuum. No educated person believes otherwise.
                        You need to reeducate yourself its been proven as simultaneous outside a vacuum. Mythbusters 2009 season episode 12 series #126 aired Oct 7 2009

                        The pancake effect has been stated over and over and over by building engineers when asked about the towers. The only thing is people would rather believe a team of demolition experts went into the towers and set charges.

                        www.popularmechanics.com/science/research/4278874.html

                        Gravity is gravity.
                        Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
                          You need to reeducate yourself its been proven as simultaneous outside a vacuum.
                          Did I say otherwise?

                          The pancake effect has been stated over and over and over by building engineers when asked about the towers.
                          There is debate on this. Again its not that simple.

                          The only thing is people would rather believe a team of demolition experts went into the towers and set charges.
                          The only question I'm asking is whether a pancake collapse is feasible when the collapse front can be shown to accelerate. The multi-brick break footage sheds some light on this.

                          I'm not arguing for a demo team or anything of the sort, and I won't because its completely irrelevant.
                          Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                          KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                          In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                          Luta Livre flees the fight,
                          Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                          Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
                            Did I say otherwise?
                            Yes you did.
                            Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
                              Yes you did.
                              C'mon Josh! You're not a retard... stop acting like one. You asked this [quote}Which will hit the ground first a bullet dropped from 5ft or a bullet fired straight from 5 feet? [/quote]
                              To which I replied
                              Simultaneous in a vacuum. No educated person believes otherwise.
                              I did not say anything at all about the same test in atmosphere, which is what the television program you referred to was examining.
                              Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                              KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                              In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                              Luta Livre flees the fight,
                              Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                              Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                              Comment

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