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Who Says There Is No MA Angle On 9/11?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
    The pancake effect has been stated over and over and over by building engineers when asked about the towers
    Here is a partial list of material written by various engineers, physicists, architects and governmental organizations on the subject. They represent the full spectrum of agreement and dissent with the pancake theory. Read as much or as little as you'd like. I'm posting it to show the diversity of opinion in the group you mentioned:
    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/04/2010 2:18pm, .
    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
    Luta Livre flees the fight,
    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

    Comment


      #17
      The towers did fall at a constant rate. As the top section impacted the lower there was an initial slight resistance and of course even gravity took a short time to overcome the upper sections inertia.
      As more weight began to be added to the falling section by each floor that was successively crushed and torn free it reduced the ability of the remaining floors to resist the forces bearing down on them.
      The rate of collapse even allowing for momentary structural resistance and air pressure resistance was more or less the gravitational constant of acceleration which 9.81m/s.
      So yes they did fall at a constant rate, i.e. one which was consistent which gravitational acceleration.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by ReverendClog View Post
        The towers did fall at a constant rate.
        I don't believe that's possible. In order for an object falling at a constant speed to arrive at the ground at close to the same time as a second free falling object, it must have been travelling faster than the that object for part of its descent. But this is impossible, as the free falling object is already traveling at the fastest rate gravity alone can generate.

        The rate of collapse even allowing for momentary structural resistance and air pressure resistance was more or less the gravitational constant of acceleration which 9.81m/s.
        Nobody ever said terminal velocity does not depened on gravity.
        Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


        KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

        In De Janerio, in blackest night,
        Luta Livre flees the fight,
        Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
        Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
          I don't believe that's possible. In order for an object falling at a constant speed to arrive at the ground at close to the same time as a second free falling object, it must have been travelling faster than the that object for part of its descent. But this is impossible, as the free falling object is already traveling at the fastest rate gravity alone can generate.


          Nobody ever said terminal velocity does not depened on gravity.
          Nooooooooooooo things dont fall at a constant speed they fall with a constant acceleration when in a gravitational field. (Newtoninan assumption of locally flat space so as not to get into any relativistic argument)

          The dynamics of innumerable chucks of mass in such a catastophy are truly mind bending. All sorts forces will be generated in any given direction acting on any given chunk of mass. Some parts will even accelerate upwards for a time!!!

          Add to this unquantifiable chaos the fact that crack propagation is far from a linear phenomena and you really do get into a realm where, even simplified explainations require a higher degree in structural mechanics to comprehend.

          Good luck and remember gravity is your friend.

          :5propelle
          Last edited by Da Pope; 3/05/2010 5:39am, .

          Comment


            #20
            English may be my second language, bad English being my first. Your statement implied that they will only hit simultaneous in a vacuum and that you would have to be an idiot to believe otherwise.

            The evidence is there for all to see a bunch of idiots flew a plane into a building and it fell down. So another bunch of idiots came up with some idiotic notions and some idiots with degrees (I know plenty of them) agreed with them. Then some really smart people say exactly what happen as shown on the videos and the original idiots call them stupid.

            Conspiracy of this magnitude would require 1000s of people to be silent. People give our government to much credit when it come to shit like this. Fuck we can't even balance a budget. Think about it your dumbass uncle that is always broke and borrowing money from people is running the country. Yet, he can keep a secret about killing 3000+ of his neighbors.

            Sorry I have nothing more to say about this let the people who died in this fucked incident rest in peace and leave them alone.
            Judo is only gentle for the guy on top.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by War Wheel View Post
              Note: you realize you are accusing the architect of mass murder right?
              No, he's saying that the architect regarded the building "pancaking" as preferable to it toppling.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Nicko1 View Post
                No, he's saying that the architect regarded the building "pancaking" as preferable to it toppling.
                1) Without a reference or some other kind of supporting evidence, this is just CJ specualting wildly.

                2) Saying a building was designed to pancake is the same thing as saying the floors were underbuilt in terms of their ability to bear additional weight above the bare minimum required.

                3) Such a building would be under designed, and the designer would be negligent.
                Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                Luta Livre flees the fight,
                Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                Comment


                  #23
                  I'm totally getting high and shooting up the Pentagon.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Da Pope View Post
                    Nooooooooooooo things dont fall at a constant speed they fall with a constant acceleration when in a gravitational field.
                    In a vacuum, you are correct. Depending on the size, shape, and mass of the falling object, and the viscosity of the medium through which it travels, a maximum velocity can emerge.

                    (Newtoninan assumption of locally flat space so as not to get into any relativistic argument)
                    Of course.

                    The dynamics of innumerable chucks of mass in such a catastophy are truly mind bending. All sorts forces will be generated in any given direction acting on any given chunk of mass. Some parts will even accelerate upwards for a time!!!
                    (Relatively) Upwards is not a problem, but accelerating downwards at greater than 9.81 m/s/s is impossible in an unassisted fall.

                    Add to this unquantifiable chaos the fact that crack propagation is far from a linear phenomena and you really do get into a realm where, even simplified explainations require a higher degree in structural mechanics to comprehend.
                    Absolute utter bullshit. Nothing requires an advanced degree to understand. Understanding complex material requires study, and checking your understanding with qualified people. Nothing more.

                    Good luck and remember gravity is your friend.
                    Your sarcam is noted.
                    :5propelle
                    To quote Dick Cheney: Go fuck yourself.
                    Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/05/2010 4:02pm, .
                    Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                    KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                    In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                    Luta Livre flees the fight,
                    Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                    Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Coach Josh View Post
                      English may be my second language, bad English being my first.
                      Considering I never noticed this before, I'd say your English is excellent.

                      Your statement implied that they will only hit simultaneous in a vacuum and that you would have to be an idiot to believe otherwise.
                      I see where you got the wrong impression. I didn't mean only in a vacuum, just that I was answering the question for that case (you didn't specify which case)

                      The evidence is there for all to see a bunch of idiots flew a plane into a building and it fell down. So another bunch of idiots came up with some idiotic notions and some idiots with degrees (I know plenty of them) agreed with them. Then some really smart people say exactly what happen as shown on the videos and the original idiots call them stupid.
                      This is called 'a debate'.

                      Conspiracy of this magnitude would require 1000s of people to be silent. People give our government to much credit when it come to shit like this. Fuck we can't even balance a budget. Think about it your dumbass uncle that is always broke and borrowing money from people is running the country. Yet, he can keep a secret about killing 3000+ of his neighbors.
                      I am not interested in talking about conspiracies. I want to know if the government analysts did their. That is an important question.

                      Sorry I have nothing more to say about this let the people who died in this fucked incident rest in peace and leave them alone.
                      SOrry but that's not how things work. People are killed in a catastrophy, and we investigate what happened. We work and think and argue until the truth emerges, and then we take whatever action is called for to minimize the chances of something similar happening ever again.

                      In my neck of the woods, we are still investigating a night club fire that killed 100 people 7 years ago, and night club policy is still being refined as a result. That's how responsible communities handle catastrophic losses like these.
                      Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                      KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                      In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                      Luta Livre flees the fight,
                      Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                      Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Great thread btw, I would really like to see where this goes. Really hard to find questions being asked from non tin foil Alex Jones types
                        Originally posted by OnceLost
                        Actually, I don't do it because I don't want people to be scammed - I do it because I enjoy kicking down the doors of Lies and Deceit and then forcibly fucking Fraud with the dildo of Truth.
                        Originally posted by It is Fake
                        I don't care if they gave it to him because, he tickles butterfly butt-holes while wearing a pink frock.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          As an aside, there was an TV show on a while back about people involved in catastrophes, and there was a short section on the reaction of the people in the towers, IIRC only one business got out with 0 casualties, and they were the ones that drilled as they were meant to, and when the alarms went off, followed the drill and left. Whereas others sat around finishing emails or debating whether they should leave, or even ignoring it and waiting for someone else to act first.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Zapruder View Post
                            Really hard to find questions being asked from non tin foil Alex Jones types
                            Ain't it the truth.

                            Two good sites from both sides of the debate are
                            http://the911forum.freeforums.org/sc...orums-f36.html and
                            9/11 Conspiracy Theories - JREF Forum

                            The wingnuts of both varieties are finally having to cede the debate to people willing to have a serious technical discussion. The circus may be ending.
                            Last edited by Matt Phillips; 3/05/2010 6:19pm, .
                            Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                            KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                            In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                            Luta Livre flees the fight,
                            Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                            Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              WW, you are claiming that the buildings fell faster than gravitational acceleration aren't you?
                              Just so we are clear, physics states that under gravitational acceleration the building fell with an acceleration of 32.2 feet per second,(22 mph, 9.81 metres per second), increasing at that speed each second, i.e after 2 seconds the falling velocity was 64.4 feet,(44mph) and increasing at that rate each second, (96.6 ft/66 mph for 3 seconds of fall).
                              The resistance provided by air was much less because of the sheer mass of the descending structures and the fact that air was not 'contained' inside but pushed outwards through the weak, (in terms of the load being applied) Glass, Aliminium and Steel cladding.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by ReverendClog View Post
                                WW, you are claiming that the buildings fell faster than gravitational acceleration aren't you?
                                No, I'm claiming that towers collapsed with acceleration somewhat less that the 9.8 m/s/s of a free fall, and that such (or any) acceleration is inconsistant with pancake collapses, which should progress at a constant/terminal rate. Just to be clear, that's constant velocity notacceleration.

                                try measuring the rate of collapse in the brick break videos and let us know what you find.
                                Now darkness comes; you don't know if the whales are coming. - Royce Gracie


                                KosherKickboxer has t3h r34l chi sao

                                In De Janerio, in blackest night,
                                Luta Livre flees the fight,
                                Behold Maeda's sacred tights;
                                Beware my power... Blue Lantern's light!

                                Comment

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