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    side control

    Which side control variation do you usually use? Knees in, or legs extended back? Knee close to the hip in and other leg back? What about arm position? One under hook and one under the head, or both arms wrapped around the far arm, or one arm under the head and one between the legs? What do you think about the pros and cons of what you use?

    My reason for asking is that I'd like to see what people mainly use the various types for. I tend to use the one arm under the head and one arm underhooking the far arm, with my knees in tight. I'd like to work the one with both arms wrapping their far arm a bit more. It seems like a good setup for the farside armbar and kimura/americana. I fucked around for a bit with the knee thats close to the hip being up and the leg close to the head being extended (Kashiwazaki did his side control like this) but I don't like it as much as the others. It's a bit less stable but it IS quicker for transitions (and you can go back and forth to knee on belly like nothing).

    Any pointers for the various versions?
    You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.

    #2
    Both arms on the far arm? Shouldn't one of them be controlling the hip?
    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

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      #3
      I like both knees tight and then pull the opponent in hard so that his near side is a little higher than his far side.
      Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

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        #4
        I would agree with The Wastrel - knee's in tight and get his close side slightly elevated if possible - this will make it very diificult for them to shrimp out and work back to guard.

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          #5
          Nice, thanks Wastrel and Student. I've been having problems with the shrimp to guard with guys with equal or longer legs than me.

          I'm gonna try that variation out. :)

          ----

          I've been doing Cem Kilos alot lately to really put pressure on their chest, Mikus.

          It's not really side control but something in between North South and Side. Legs are spread out wide and on toes.

          If I am on my opponents right side, my left hand snakes under their left shoulder and grabs their belt, as close as I can to the knot. My right hand is by their right hip or ground to stop them from moving. Then I drive all my weight onto the upper chest.

          I got a couple chokes I setup from that position.
          Originally posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
          "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

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            #6
            You should vary your side control so you get better at all the variations. If I have my choice, I suck them in tight so their near shoulder is on my knee closest to their head, and I control their far arm with my arm closest to their head and my shoulder/neck. I have a good degree of control from there, but I am always moving all around to kepe them guessing. If you stay still too long, they will escape, so keep working.

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              #7
              The side control you use depends on what you want to achieve. For submissions like armlocks it's generally easier to have your knees in so you have more mobility. For chokes and to apply more pressure to the guys chest its better to have the legs out and driving into the guy.

              Use the crossface to crush the guy but if you want to be mobile and be able to move to front control, have your elbow on the other side of his head.

              I like to go more 45 degrees between front and side control and side control the guys near arm and smear it on the ground under my chest. This works great against big guys who can normally just bench you off. With one arm out of the picture it's then easier to set up chokes.

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                #8
                Great stuff guys!

                What I love about Jits is, you are always learning!
                Originally posted by Sifu Rudy Abel
                "Just what makes a pure grappler think he can survive with an experienced striker. Especially if that striker isn't following any particular rule set and is well aware of what the grapplers strategies are".

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                  #9
                  I take whatever I can get, and then move around depending upon their reactions and whatever attack I want to set up.

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                    #10
                    Here's what I was talking about:



                    The thing I like about it is that you can use the elbow on their head/face to push their head into your body, while controlling their far arm, which creates a seperation between their head and arm. This should take away a lot of strength on the far arm and also make it harder to bridge/shrimp.

                    Thanks for the advice on the near side being slightly elevated, it sounds like a good idea.

                    Anthony, was what you were talking about something like this? (but with the hips low, and the legs extended out)

                    Last edited by mikus; 2/08/2004 8:20pm, .
                    You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by The Wastrel
                      Both arms on the far arm? Shouldn't one of them be controlling the hip?

                      I don't exactly understand what you mean. Any pics?
                      You want some birth control? You can smoke a cigarette.

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                        #12
                        I think The Wastrel was worried that you could get put back in guard. If your knee is against the hip, or your near hip is down, then it's okay to have two arms on his arm or neck.

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                          #13
                          Obviously it is prudent to pull your head side knee up close IF he are able to trap his arm on the outside.If his arm is between you, it is wise to get your knee back and sink the weight, and sitting out to his head or his legs so as to turn and scoop his arm out.
                          If he has his arm under my center of gravity, I want to remove it before I do anything.
                          In the above picture where the top man is hugging the far side mans arm I would pull my right knee back....stretching my leg out straight.
                          This sinks weight, which put the onus to do something on HIM, not me.
                          He won't be able to regain guard as long as my right elbow is kept tight to his left hip and I have my left knee pinched in tight bear his shoulder.
                          He is pinched too tight to regain guard without first getting his arm inside.
                          Personally I don;t like the pictured holddown vs an advanced grappler.
                          It's a good one to attack both arms and get the gullotine or neckcrank... but with advanced guys if his right arm is stuck out yoy'll need your left arm on the other side of his head, where you can trap his right arm out between your left arms tricep and your right thigh.
                          In the above, if the bottom man knows how to combine bridging and wrigging it is very difficult to keep him from getting his right elbow inside your left hip.
                          He can now push you away, and keep some control on you as he goes about working his left elbow down so as to drive it up into your trachhea and to break your hold on the arm.

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                            #14
                            "In the above, if the bottom man knows how to combine bridging and wrigging it is very difficult to keep him from getting his right elbow inside your left hip."



                            hmmmmmmmmm

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                              #15
                              To add what Strong Machine says, I'd be surprised if you get that type of side control on an advanced grappler anyway since there is no way that if a guy is any good he;ll let you get both of his arms away from his body like that.

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