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The people you're not supposed to admire

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    The people you're not supposed to admire

    ...but you do anyway. These are the Darth Vaders and the Tony Montanas of the real world, the people you secretly root for despite years of being taught that who they are and everything they represent is wrong. No one ever talks about this kind of thing much, and when they do, they're either quickly silenced or lambasted by those around them (much like Arnold Schwarzenegger was during the gubernatorial election). In this way, the line between 'us' and 'them' is reinforced and the poles of 'good' and 'evil' drift further apart, if only in society's perception.

    I think, however, that everyone has at least one person that society regards or remembers as 'one of the bad guys' with whom they sympathize, and that it might be interesting to hear from some others on the forum as to who theirs is.

    Beginning with my own, I'll say that I've always had respect for Napoleon. A master strategist whose presence in the field the Duke of Wellington related to 40,000 soldiers in the balance, he became First Consul and Emperor with the people's support hardly 10 years after Louis XVI was beheaded. He made possible great achievements in science, policy, and economy, yet because he was a conqueror, history remembers best his tyranny and files him in with the likes of Adolf Hitler and Alexander the Great.

    For anyone who's seen the Jet Li movie 'Hero', there's a scene where the two assassins, Broken Sword and Flying Snow, reconsider killing the King of Qin for the sake of China's peace as a whole, because he is the only one who can unite China and put an end to the destructive conflict of the Warring States period. I think that if someone like Napoleon could have united Europe and established a justly ruling dynasty and laid the foundation for a Europe without borders, the needless horrors of later wars and the plight of many oppressed people could have been avoided.
    "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."

    #2
    I think that if someone like Napoleon could have united Europe and established a justly ruling dynasty and laid the foundation for a Europe without borders, the needless horrors of later wars and the plight of many oppressed people could have been avoided.
    I doubt that would have happened. Look at places like Former Yugoslavia. Many different ethnic groups were forced to co-exist as one people, when they had various rivalries/hatreds going back hundreds, if not thousands of years. Enforced close proximity just makes it worse when it finally does devolve into bloodshed.
    Europe is pretty much based on racism and hatred.
    Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989

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      #3
      Ther are many "bad boys" in the MA.
      Certainly the Gracies were just that when they started out.
      I have respect for Jon Blumming, and he is NOT what you would call a "poster boy for martial arts values".
      As a kenjutsuka, I also have a thing for Musashi and he was nothing more than a trouble maker.

      Historically, I greatly respect for Julius Ceaser and Augusts, the Roman empire was indeed something, Alexander the great MUST be mentioned, but on a personal level, the first king of Portugal, Afonso Enriques, kicked the ass of the Castelians, moors and his traitorous mother, not to mention being outnumbered in EVERY battle, to establish Portugal in the 11th century, and he did this be offering a pardon for ALL criminals in jail who would fight along side him.
      Last edited by Ronin; 1/21/2004 9:25am, .

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        #4
        Ok...Hitler and the gang. Snappy uniforms, great weaponry (and if not great, than very handsome a la the Luger), covetous of blonde women, efficiency and german shepherds.

        Although I hear he wasn't too kind to Blondi. :(

        I'd be lying if I didn't mention Martha Stewart too.

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          #5
          Well everyone south of the Mason-Dixon line will hate me for this. But I've always been partial to General Sherman. He was pretty much nuts and brought fire and death to thousands of Americans. But, from where he was standing he did everything right. He basically invented the type of strategy used in WW1 and WW2.

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            #6
            How can you admire someone who "invented WWI strategy,"?

            It must have gone something like: "Our strategy is to create mass graves by using Civil War battlefield tactics combined with modern day weapons,"

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              #7
              Well what I meant was the ruthless "modern" war concept of destroying your enemies Military effectiveness by attacking factories and supply lines.

              I know he raped and burned the South but He dramatically shortened the war and for his side it was all beneficial.

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                #8
                Genghis Kahn. It's a long way from being a maltreated boy to becoming head of the biggest empire in history!

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                  #9
                  Attila The Hun, nothing like a good old fashioned raping and pilaging of the roman empire.

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                    #10
                    About as dumb as TKD with machine guns.

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                      #11
                      Ben Affleck
                      The Wastrel - So attractive he HAS to be a woman.
                      - Pizdoff

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Osiris
                        And yeh, WW1 strategy sucked ass. They still had the whole line up and shoot thing going on, but this time with machine guns. How dumb is that?
                        Lol I wonder how they told the soldier's about this great plan?

                        Ok boy's here's the plan, jump out the trench and run towards their trench! No its not a stupid idea, yes I know they have machine guns.
                        Last edited by Meteora; 1/21/2004 10:07pm, .
                        "ARGH SURF NINJAS *implodes* " the cruel fate of Stold3

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                          #13
                          Re: The people you're not supposed to admire

                          Originally posted by Mercurius
                          [B
                          For anyone who's seen the Jet Li movie 'Hero', there's a scene where the two assassins, Broken Sword and Flying Snow, reconsider killing the King of Qin for the sake of China's peace as a whole, because he is the only one who can unite China and put an end to the destructive conflict of the Warring States period. I think that if someone like Napoleon could have united Europe and established a justly ruling dynasty and laid the foundation for a Europe without borders, the needless horrors of later wars and the plight of many oppressed people could have been avoided. [/B]
                          This was tried by the Austria-Hungarian Empire which attempted to place the ruling dynasty above language differences but eventually found that they had to favor its German and Hungarian speaking population to keep order in the rest of its empire. The Empire did not survive the end of WWI and has continued to fragment see czeckslovakia(sp) Basically this empire proved that nationalism cannot be separated from language.

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                            #14
                            harold bluetooth

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                              #15
                              I admire Hugh Hefner and Bruce Lee

                              and Vince Voyeur.

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