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    #16
    'Has it ever been taught as a style unto itself ?'

    I couldnt really tell you, ronin. I learned it as part of an animal set. It is not considered complete by any means.

    others include tiger, monkey, crane, dragon, and ape.

    the 'classics'.

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      #17
      a few things. first of all, i am not questioning ur knowledge of martial arts kuntao kid. i just want to know what style you practice. and how do you know so much about all these different chinese martial arts. if you could point me to a reference , i would appreciate it.

      Anyways, back to the post. I just had to point out something. You said that the snake style does not contain kicks because snakes do not have legs. Why restrict yourselves from using an effective weapon only for the sake of emulating an animal?

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        #18
        uh, why does striking the eyes damage the spine?

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          #19
          "a few things. first of all, i am not questioning ur knowledge of martial arts kuntao kid. i just want to know what style you practice. and how do you know so much about all these different chinese martial arts. if you could point me to a reference , i would appreciate it."


          Hungsta,

          I practice the KuntaoSilat combinasi of Willem A. Reeders. KuntaoSilat is an admixture of Chinese and Indonesian fighting methods. It uses many conceptual paradigms from both cultures.

          I have been training in martial arts for 32 yrs. I have experience in KuntaoSilat, Poekulan, Karate, Capoiera, and Jujutsu.

          "Anyways, back to the post. I just had to point out something. You said that the snake style does not contain kicks because snakes do not have legs. Why restrict yourselves from using an effective weapon only for the sake of emulating an animal?"

          that was a reference to intuitive imagery as is utilized in many instructional methods. the 'lesson' of the snake is friction, continous and variable force, and continous compression. Essential needs for successful grappling.

          the 'snake style' is a close range grappling art. lifting the feet will emperil your balance. You could be more easily overturned or swept. It also makes the reading of your footwork for counter-timing purposes more difficult.


          the 'old school' method was through direct observation and experience. they came to certain conclusions that are often expressed in 'difficult terminology'. I have managed to 'decode' many of the various songs and sayings of TMA.

          their was through the use of intuituve imagery related to nature.

          ours is through the method of scientific dissection.

          both are lacking, simply because they are only analogies.

          some analogies are better than others, however. personally i prefer intuitive models. you can act on them. the snake is an excellent intuitive draw.

          Peace.

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            #20
            oh, sorry.

            If i want to kick i use the Crane.

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              #21
              'uh, why does striking the eyes damage the spine?'

              not damage.

              ' the body follows the head'

              if i strike at your eyes, you are liable to flinch backwards. this can help to break both balance and attention.

              Peace.

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                #22
                Kuntao - seeing as everyone overlooked my post of linking styles of fighting to "animal styles"...

                What would you attribe to which? Like, GnP, sprawl and brawl, buttscoot, slammer, long range kicker, clincher, etc... I think that would be more apt instead of some idealized animal.
                Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

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                  #23
                  'I found all the animal generalizations *which seem more like idealized polar extremes of a scale to how you fight than a real style* are present in all MAs, and your individual style is which animal you'd most relate to.'

                  that's a pretty apt description, Nihilanthic.

                  the animals can 'balance' each other by combining.

                  'That being said, Snake seems like the cautious pokey type, right?'

                  actually, that is monkey.

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                    #24
                    Okay...

                    Well, here... what would a GnP guy be? What would a European MT guy be? Sakuraba's style? W. Silvas?

                    Oh, and what is BJJ most like?
                    Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

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                      #25
                      'What would you attribe to which?


                      Like,

                      GnP- monkey or ape

                      sprawl and brawl-not sure what you mean, sprawl as shoot defense, then counterstrike? in that case, monkey or ape

                      buttscoot- monkey

                      slammer-i am assuming you mean an upright thrower. snake or tiger

                      long range kicker- crane

                      clincher- again snake and tiger



                      Peace.

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                        #26
                        I think we just bridged a huge gap between MMA and the KF guys. Seriously.

                        BTW - Sprawl and Brawl is like Chuck Liddel. GREAT standup, can defend takedowns and get up real easy.
                        Katana, on 540 kicks: "Hang from a ceiling fan with both hands. Flail your feet out and ask people to walk into you as you hit their face."

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                          #27
                          sweet

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                            #28
                            is snake style just one style? i know a lot of CMA have snake forms, but i don't know much about it.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by kuntaokid
                              'Has it ever been taught as a style unto itself ?'

                              I couldnt really tell you, ronin. I learned it as part of an animal set. It is not considered complete by any means.

                              others include tiger, monkey, crane, dragon, and ape.

                              the 'classics'.
                              Kuntao,

                              Couple of questions.

                              1. What makes these animals classics?

                              2. Also, I have some snake background, I never considered it a grappling art, though I am familiar with the trap blocks. Is this what you mean?
                              “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

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                                #30
                                'Thanks for breaking that down Kuntao. Now it doesnt seem so ludicrous. Theyre still crny as hell though.'

                                Os,

                                yea, it is a pain in the ass. and sometimes seems a little silly I must admit. It took me a LONG time to 'get it'. conceptual imagery originally in chinese, 'translated' into english. and i am sure most books i read were translations of translations, translated into english. that is a long way to pass a message.


                                'What do you think is the benefit of such language besides impressing people by saying that you know drunken tiger mantis?'

                                when i hear someone say they know an animal style, i am immediately suspicious. such claims are usually garbage.

                                however, the theory is very sound. it is based on analogies. To teach, you can say that to perform some technique is 'like' some other activity. Given that most martial arts motions can be related to some common everyday activity, this can be a very useful way to instruct. It helps people to get the 'feeling' for the motion, whereas long, technical instructions usually are of little help. ma is about sensitivity, and intuitive reflex. Images are a much better way to transmit the 'intention' for any given action. with a good image to start with, the student to get to the 'real' thing much more quickly.

                                'Also, how do you think that the CMA community can put a stop to idiots cncerned more with monkey emulation than with the principles that the metaphor stand for.'

                                I wish I knew. You and I both the real answer. but it cant happen that way anymore. there is a nearby instructor ( term applied loosely) who is a classic new age hippie chi head taichi dancer, who claims to teach Taichi, Praying Mantis, Bagua, and some other crap too i think.

                                he is one of many.

                                what can i do?

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