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chicken or the egg?

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    #31
    Are you mocking me?! ha ha!

    it's pretty obvious.

    *takes cigar and takes a puff* *cough* *cough*
    this shit will kill you
    Punches in bunches and kicks kicks kicks!

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      #32
      It will put hair on you chest !!

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        #33
        i'm asian...no hair there. =(

        *grabs another cigar and lites up*
        Punches in bunches and kicks kicks kicks!

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          #34
          And so begins you journey to the Dark Side.....

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            #35
            "No one wantes to answer my question ?
            What came first the technique or the principle ?"

            OK...I'll take a stab at it.... I believe the principle was first. The technique came as a result of discovering the underlying principle that makes the technique effective. For example, leverage is the principle...Shoulder throw or hip throw or Osoto Gari are the techniques...IMO, all discoveries whether in MA or anything are discovering and understanding the underlyng principles that make the technique work. And you can't argue this position because 1. you'd be wrong 2. I have on my helmet.

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              #36
              So the first time a homo sapien put a choke on a neandrathal, he did that AFTER he developed the principles for an effective choke?

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                #37
                "So the first time a homo sapien put a choke on a neandrathal, he did that AFTER he developed the principles for an effective choke?"

                No you silly Canuke...the principle was always there, he might not have even realized the principle... That would have been the monk or whomever sitting around contemplating years later why the technique worked. The principle was always there though.

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                  #38
                  ronin,

                  the principles, of course. recognition of them, and when it may occur for any given individual is inconsequential. There always ARE, and always will BE.

                  the sooner you realize them the sooner you will see improvement, however.

                  as well, they are entirely observable, and able to be apprehended intuitively (OJT).

                  my whole point with this thread, which i had hoped for another to express, is the fact that techniques, or the techni-centric mentality is a HUGE FALLACY. NO SUCH THING.

                  "Techniques" are processes. Processess that are bound by the 'laws of nature' or physics. Movements must be configured in accord with the physics the govern the situation.


                  stylistic preference, personal preference, archetypal desires....all crap. These serve only to obscure the proper objective consideration of any given interaction.

                  for any movement, be it a step, kick, parry, or combination, you must satisy the following:

                  WHO
                  WHAT
                  WHEN
                  WHERE
                  WHY

                  all of these questions/requirements can be satisfied objectively, provided you know what you are doing, and have a clear understanding of it's foundation. Then 'technique' or variance is not an issue.

                  ****MARTIAL ARTS IS RELATIONAL PHYSICS*****

                  until that is understood, you are just playing with lincoln logs.


                  your perspective tailors your experience.

                  the truth is that ma is the 'science of human physics in fighting'. If you are not coming at it from that perspective, then you are going to make mistakes.

                  shit, guys dont even pay attention to gravity.

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                    #39
                    Can someone look up the words "principle" and " technique" in the dictonary?

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                      #40
                      'No you silly Canuke...the principle was always there, he might not have even realized the principle... That would have been the monk or whomever sitting around contemplating years later why the technique worked. The principle was always there though.

                      exactly, JustMe.

                      see, he knows

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                        #41
                        Can someone look up the words "principle" and " technique" in the dictonary?


                        __________________

                        these words are vague, misleading, and essentially do not satisfy the requirements of identifying martial arts maneouvers.

                        the dictionary will not be of help, unless you are looking for different words than these.

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                          #42

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                            #43
                            Long before someone DISCOVERED the principle that governs the technique, the TECHNIQUES was already being used.
                            So, what came first?

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                              #44
                              "a comprehensive and fundamental law, doctrine, or assumption "

                              the fundamental law was there. aka physics.

                              doctrine or assumption requires mental recognition. that came after technique.

                              depends on what definition u are talking about. but i would like to add that many people make an assumption that their principles work when they are not fundamental laws.
                              Punches in bunches and kicks kicks kicks!

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                                #45
                                THE PRINCIPLE BECAUSE IT WAS ALWAYS THERE BEFORE THE TECHNIQUE EXISTED.... Ask the frog. Be one with the Frog. The Frog K-N-O-W-S about principles and techniques.....

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