Question for believers.

[M1K3]

[GoldenJonas]

Well, I'm agnostic. I have no set belief system or faith affiliation.

However, I would like to believe that there is "something" beyond sight and pure empirical proof.

Here is an appropriate quote which embodies my belief systems....in a way....

"If the big bang was the beginning of time itself, then any discussion about what happened before the big bang, or what caused it-in the usual sense of physical causation-is simply meaningless. Unfortunately, many children, and adults, too, regard this answer as disingenuous. There must be more to it than that." http://www.fortunecity.com/emachines.../big-bang.html

Now, theoretical physics is just that, theoretical; though extrapolated from known physical or tangible actions, reactions, or interactions. My belief is essentially, "But what if there is more than that, something intangible, or at least presently intangible", "what if the 'singularity' is a being or other ethereal presence that can interact at some level with some or all properties of the known physical world."

For me it is just a matter of trying to keep an open mind; continued investigation and discovery through scientific and empirical means is a must for the evolution of society and as this evolution has progressed over the centuries many of the fantastical blind beliefs of many religions have become relegated to the realm of fictional tales and children's stories.

But, we have not uncovered everything......and......what if?

[Teh El Macho]

^^^ What he said.

I'm Catholic. I didn't pick the religion. Instead I was raised in it and was very active when I was in my late teen years. I've become a bit of an agnostic myself, and very skeptic of some of the Catholic dogma. There are some profound differences between what I believe and what's dogma.

Having said that, this is the faith that pretty much fullfills what I consider are my spiritual needs, it gives me a moral compass in time of need (though I'm sure other fates would equally suffice for others), and most importantly, it provides me a window to God, a way to reach to him, past my human imperfections via communion with others, whenever I seek answers or guidance in this life.

[3moose1]

Its hard to explain waht i believe. No one in my family is really religious, but i've read the koran, the bible, some buddhist literature, even stuff on paganism.


I picked up the torah, and started reading, and it felt right. But, i also read teh new testament, and believe in Yeshua (jesus' hebrew name) as our lord and savior.

I guess its non-trinistic, messianic judaism, even though i'm not remotely jewish by blood. I keep the laws and commandments of the torah, but still accept Yeshua as my savior.

Anyhow, i don't know why i believe the way i do, per se. It just feels right, i feel much calmer. I used to have major drug problems, but since i've found G-d, and started training in M.A again, i've reached a pretty good place.

I don't know, for me, it works.

[M1K3]

Thank you for the honest answers. This is something that is outside my way of thinking and I was curious as to why people felt the way they did. I hope the thread stays on course and doesn't become a "my way is the only way" verbal fight. I am an atheist because I can't believe that there is any outside force that created the universe and I guess I don't have any hole that needs to be filled by such a belief. This is not meant to be a put down to anyone's beliefs.

[Gypsy Jazz]

Its hard to explain waht i believe. No one in my family is really religious, but i've read the koran, the bible, some buddhist literature, even stuff on paganism.


I picked up the torah, and started reading, and it felt right. But, i also read teh new testament, and believe in Yeshua (jesus' hebrew name) as our lord and savior.

I guess its non-trinistic, messianic judaism, even though i'm not remotely jewish by blood. I keep the laws and commandments of the torah, but still accept Yeshua as my savior.

Anyhow, i don't know why i believe the way i do, per se. It just feels right, i feel much calmer. I used to have major drug problems, but since i've found G-d, and started training in M.A again, i've reached a pretty good place.

I don't know, for me, it works.

I really don't want to derail this thread since it's nice, polite, and interesting. But have you looked into the Unitarians? They've always confused me a bit, but they sound like they'd match up pretty nicely with you from what I know.

[Bluto Blutarsky]

I believe in the holy divinity of hte flying spaghetti monster because I was touched by his noodly appendage.

while most religions have little proof that thier prophets performed certain acts or even thier existance is in debate, the holy prophets of the flying spaghetti monster's existance are undeniable.

do you deny the existance of pirates? they existed 200 years ago and they exist today.


seriously though.

I believe in the fsm because it amuses me. the normal religious people might find it amusing and don't get offended. but it sure as hell offends the bible thumpers who think its thier way or the highway.


its a mockery of religious thinking using the same "logic" used to "conclusively prove" the arguments of fanatics using the same type of logic for something equally preposterous.

you want to believe believe, but faith is faith and evidence is evidence. I like to see the people who think that thier faith is proof get pissed off and burn up the only two brain cells they have left.


basically until someone can use the scientific method to prove the existance of god- then seperately prove that thier religion is the right one by an equally stringent or equivalent standard, then I'll remain an athiest.

bring me credible proof and I'll reconsider.

[HappyOldGuy]

If you want a potentially enlightening experience. Once you have a good set of answers, take a look at the type of questions that people are answering with their beliefs. Then ask yourself how you answer those questions.

[halfcut]

I'm Catholic. I didn't pick the religion. Instead I was raised in it and was very active when I was in my late teen years. I've become a bit of an agnostic myself, and very skeptic of some of the Catholic dogma. There are some profound differences between what I believe and what's dogma.

This is almost my exact same situation. Catholicism is more of an ethnic or a cultural thing for me, at the same time though I don't consider myself to be a religious person at all. On a side note being Catholic keeps the real crazy nuts away from my daughter.

[Arthyron]

I was raised by two parents, both Christians. I went to a Christian school until highschool, and upon reaching highschool I was suddenly confronted with people who not only were not Christians, but were ideologically opposed to Christianity. I was confronted with many questions and criticisms and attacks against my faith. So for a time, I began to really question what I believed and why. I began to seek answers. I started reading all sorts of books on philosophy, theology, history, etc as well as visiting literally hundreds of pro-christian and anti-christian websites as well as engaging in the study of other religions and various mythologies.

I also began to engage in debate and discussion online on various forums (all the way from heavy metal band forums to well known philosophy forums to places like Bullshido and Sociocide). After all the research, all the reasoning, all the debating, I, like C.S. Lewis (probably my first introduction to the field of Christian Apologetics), had no other alternative but to "admit that God was God," and kneel before Him.

So as you can see, it's not a matter of "just because your parents believed" or "because you haven't thought about it" or "just wishful thinking." I've encountered the best and worst arguments, evidences, and proponents of both sides, and no matter what (so far), Christ's side has always been the heaviest. Do note, however, that I do indeed disagree with my parents on a variety of issues (especially those relating to my faith). I am not your typical Christian. I believe that Christ was crucified for the sins of ALL mankind and that God will eventually reconcile ALL of Creation unto Himself (a concept called Universal Reconciliation, which is distinct from Universalism), and I have ample Scriptural evidence to support this claim (it hinges on the original Greek texts, rather than sometimes dubious translations like the King James Version of the Bible)

I have yet to encounter another system of belief (or non-belief) that so exhaustively answers all of life's existential questions, or any other system of belief (or non-belief) that can provide such a vast, elegant, intricate, and complete philosophical framework (metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, you name it). Nothing else I've studied can so completely account for the basic presuppositions that validate the study of the Sciences (see Humean Skepticism). Nothing else I've studied can so firmly and completely give a grounding and an impetus for using Reason.*

If you really take the time to delve deeply into its study, nothing else is ultimately like Scripture. Its cosmology is unlike all others, its Deity unlike all other gods, its mythology, its alleged grounding in actual space-time (as opposed to long ago in a galaxy far far away as in most mythos), the way in which its Deity communicates with man through propositional truths, it's breathtaking (even if you ultimately reject it as factual).

I have seen no higher paradigm for Virtue, Grace, Mercy, Compassion, Kindness, Gentleness, Goodness, or Love than in one Y'shua of Nazareth. No other person on this earth, regardless of the greatness of their physical, intellectual, or social prowess/achievements has made such an impact for good on my life.

These things, aside from my "religious experiences" (which are obviously of little to no use nor value to most of you, so I won't belabor you with them) are some of the reasons I believe what I believe (though not all).

*Do note that I'm always willing to entertain and consider other systems of belief or non-belief, so if you have something that does a better job of things, I'd love to hear about it

Its hard to explain waht i believe. No one in my family is really religious, but i've read the koran, the bible, some buddhist literature, even stuff on paganism.

I picked up the torah, and started reading, and it felt right. But, i also read teh new testament, and believe in Yeshua (jesus' hebrew name) as our lord and savior.

I guess its non-trinistic, messianic judaism, even though i'm not remotely jewish by blood. I keep the laws and commandments of the torah, but still accept Yeshua as my savior.

Anyhow, i don't know why i believe the way i do, per se. It just feels right, i feel much calmer. I used to have major drug problems, but since i've found G-d, and started training in M.A again, i've reached a pretty good place.

I don't know, for me, it works.

I too am inclined to believe in the Godhead rather than the Trinity (as the Godhead is directly mentioned in the Scriptures whereas the Trinity is merely theologically derived).. Lord be with you, brother.

[Jim_Jude]

A question to Christians: do you feel that your decision to become a Christian had anything to do with fear of damnation, and if so, do you have a problem with the ethical problem of making a decision in matters of faith and religion when under duress (fear of punishment)?

Thanks. :love3:

[Southpaw]

To OP:

For the most part people believe what their parents believe. That's a fact. Not all the time...but most of the time.

I was raised Roman Catholic. As I became more and more educated, I realized that is was no more true than any other religion. As I became very educated, I realized that it was embarassing to be catholic, and that I didn't want to be associated w/ a religion that is responsible for so much hatred, murder, and misinformation.

At this point in my life, I think most organized religions are a bunch of shit.

Believe in yourself...you'll get much further than believing in some white-bearded God.

[Arthyron]

A question to Christians: do you feel that your decision to become a Christian had anything to do with fear of damnation, and if so, do you have a problem with the ethical problem of making a decision in matters of faith and religion when under duress (fear of punishment)?

Thanks. :love3:

No, because I don't believe in eternal damnation (see previous post). I'm a proponent of Universal Reconciliation. I believe many people will have to undergo a period of intense chastisement to be rid of their carnal nature, but I'm confident that the Scriptures teach that God will ultimately save everyone (note that I make a distinction between Scripture and Bibles).

Also no, I tend to take the viewpoint of the Apostle Paul, "to live is Christ and to die is gain."

[3moose1]

I too am inclined to believe in the Godhead rather than the Trinity (as the Godhead is directly mentioned in the Scriptures whereas the Trinity is merely theologically derived).. Lord be with you, brother.

Well, for me, anyone can interpret scripture the way they like. I interpret deuteronomy 6:4-10 as saying that the lord is ONE, not three.


However, it is nice to see such religous tolerance now-a-days, and OP wished that this would stay on topic, and so do I.

But still, I never knew what self-loathing was till i met a catholic (JK! JK!, my catholic friend told me that one...)

[Teh El Macho]

A question to Christians: do you feel that your decision to become a Christian had anything to do with fear of damnation,

The question is too broad since Christianity is not a single set of beliefs. What I, as a Catholic, understand as salvation, faith and damnation, that's different from the understanding from Protestant or Oriental Orthodox' POV.

As a Catholic, my answer is no. Damnation does not come for what you believe, but for your actions. I may believe in God and yet be a total asshole, while the guy around the corner may be an atheist and yet be a man of charity.

The basic tenet of Catholicism is that faith alone does not bring salvation. Actions are what save you or condemn you. Your actions alone. Every human being is called into holiness, to enter into a state of communion with the people around him and to be an agent of positive change. The degree by which you do this will determine how close you are to attain the holiness ideal.

Furthermore, we believe in the existence of Limbo and Purgatory, intermediary steps in which human souls not deserving of eternal damnation reside until they reach a state of purity.

We also believe that this is logical for the reason that the vast majority of people are neither holy nor evil. People are imperfect, weak and yet, generally of a good nature. Having a strict heaven-or-hell dichotomy will imply then that the vast majority of humans would inevitable meet damnation. That would be unjust, but most important, that would be a failure of God in his eternal battle against Evil. This is so since His goals is the salvation of Humanity, not its damnation.

God can only win. And his win can only have merit if the majority of people avoid damnation. Catholic belief teaches that this outcome is not only inevitable but logical and reasonable , not just an outcome of blind faith (again since most people are good in nature regardless of their flaws.)

and if so, do you have a problem with the ethical problem of making a decision in matters of faith and religion when under duress (fear of punishment)?Thanks. :love3:

Spoiler:

And no, thinking to commit an evil act with the plans of asking forgiveness does not count. This is premeditation and lacks honest remorse. I have to say this because I know there will always be one retard out there incapable of seeing the difference between the former and the later.

As I became very educated, I realized that it was embarassing to be catholic, and that I didn't want to be associated w/ a religion that is responsible for so much hatred, murder, and misinformation.

I'm sorry if that was your experience. As for me, it was the Catholic Church as well as Protestants orgs of charity that I thank because they gave me food when I was a refugee one hair away from looking for food in a trash can, they gave me clothes, shoes, medicine, refuge, shelter, a safe passage out of a war zone, protection, counseling when relatives of mine died and they helped me and my family settled in the US, helped me find a job and guided me towards integrating this society.

It is they that still help others that are in a similar situation today while others are too busy to do acts of charity while looking for details to pile on. If that is hate, murder and misinformation, I embrace it.