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Tai Chi vs. Shuai Jiao (no, this isn't one of THOSE threads)

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  • Glimmer_no1
    replied
    This is all true - forgive me for remarking that Sun/Chen is more throwing-based, they are still predominantly striking arts.

    Yes, I have also heard good things about the old form Yang style of Tai Chi - but, and I admire and respect tai chi here (I don't think it sucks!), I simply don't think that most tai chi taught in the west is taught with a view to fighting. There are some academies that train in a combat orientated way i.e. more contact based with sparring and emphasis on application rather then drills and forms. Still, these skills take an age to learn and against someone who continually trains in a sport/full contact capacity (such as Judo or shuai jiao), they simply won't be prepared.

    In competitions, grapplers and those trained in throwing arts naturally have an advantage because they can train their chosen speciality in a more realistic way then tai-ch etc. How many tai chi schools that you know also teach you to take a punch so that your structure does not collapse when you are stunned?

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  • Freddy
    replied
    As for the shuai jiao guys my guess is that they are from China and thats why they wernt that succesfull. The Chinese government (a bunch of idiots) has this tendency to water down anything martial. Including shuai jiao. Fighting tends to be discourage. Now the guys from Taiwan tend to be good wrestlers. They dont have all this goverment interference nonesense. There are three main styles of shuai jiao that originated in China. There are a bunch of misc. unknown styles as well.

    As for Wu style tai chi it does have wrestling moves in the system. It was created buy a guy who took Yang Tai chi and wrestling. He combined the two to form Wu tai chi. Whatever you do dont take tai chi from anyone from China maybe with the exception of Chen style. If you must, learn from someone from Taiwan or Macao.
    Yang style Tai chi from what I understand was created more so for its health benifits and is a challenge to use for fighting. The only teacher that really teaches it for fighting is Yang Jwing Ming in Boston.

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  • Ronin
    replied
    Although the Chen style is know for its "combat effectivness" in Asia, I don't know of anyone who teaches that way here.
    The Yang style is very respected in Asia also, the OLD yang style, the one the kept the "small" frame, the Fajing ( explosive moves) and the teaches cavity presses and strikes.
    The Sun, I know nothing about.

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  • imawimp
    replied
    >>>>>>>>>>>
    I really cannot see a tai chi guy (definately not Yang style) causing any trouble for a half-decent Shuai Jiao student..not in a similar weight category. Maybe someone who studies a more throwing based method of tai-chi like Sun or Chen would have a chance . . . If the original story is true, then it is not simply down to tai chi, there are no doubt other key factors involved.
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

    Interesting thread, but Im curious about this statement. Why wouldnt Yang style work in this case? Why woould Sun or Chen style work better?

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  • Ronin
    replied
    Promises, promises.....

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  • PizDoff
    replied
    Well, looks like we'll have to test this guy ronin69 and anyone else that wants to come to TO and play.

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  • Ronin
    replied
    The comment on weight divisions was a comment in general, not aimed at you at all.
    But good answer.
    Although I believe that if you routinly tarin with people that outweigh you or are "bigger" than you, the better you will be for it.
    "Maybe someone who studies a more throwing based method of tai-chi like Sun or Chen would have a chance "
    I don't know about Sun, but the Chen style I have seen had 70% strikes, some throws and locks, no pushs.
    I wouldn't call it a "thowing based system".

    Leave a comment:


  • Bang!
    replied
    I really cannot see a tai chi guy (definately not Yang style) causing any trouble for a half-decent Shuai Jiao student..not in a similar weight category. Maybe someone who studies a more throwing based method of tai-chi like Sun or Chen would have a chance . . . If the original story is true, then it is not simply down to tai chi, there are no doubt other key factors involved.
    Fuck weight categories, what is up with that shit????
    I thought Martial arts were suppose to be effective "irregardless" of size.
    Weight divisions is BS.
    You wanna show how good you are? beat a guy that outweights you by 100lbs, then I will be immpressed !!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronin
    replied
    Fuck weight categories, what is up with that shit????
    I thought Martial arts were suppose to be effective "irregardless" of size.
    Weight divisions is BS.
    You wanna show how good you are? beat a guy that outweights you by 100lbs, then I will be immpressed !!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • Glimmer_no1
    replied
    I really cannot see a tai chi guy (definately not Yang style) causing any trouble for a half-decent Shuai Jiao student..not in a similar weight category. Maybe someone who studies a more throwing based method of tai-chi like Sun or Chen would have a chance..

    If the original story is true, then it is not simply down to tai chi, there are no doubt other key factors involved. However, a student of any kung-fu would benefit greatly from studying a throwing art like Shuai Jiao or Judo..

    Leave a comment:


  • Wu De
    replied
    I had a light sparring session with a wrestler (not sure what style, he said he did 'pro wrestling', this meant very little to me).

    I got pounded. He just kinda walked up to me ignoring my (probably feable) punches and roughed me up a little. Now if i had shaolin skills, this might have been a different story...

    Leave a comment:


  • Vargas
    replied
    Oh, I was mystified by that 'technique', all right, just not quite in the manner it was intended. Sometimes, I wonder if the people who claim to have gone up against a real honest-to-God college wrestler realize how explosive those guys really are. We have two ex-college guys at Jackson's and it is almost im-fucking-possible to get them on the ground or prevent them from taking you there. I'm not saying that story was bullshit, but the thought did cross my mind. . .

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  • manchuria
    replied
    maybe it was WWF lol

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  • The Wastrel
    replied
    back in college when i did taiji i had plenty of opportunities for semi-friendly matches with wrestlers. it was funny how well i fared seeing as how my ground game was (and is) lacking. some of them would get pissed off after a while of me just standing there with my feet planted, i would just sink and turn.....'gawd dammit you faggot, do sumpthin you piece of shit!!' one actually yelled at me.
    This is implausible. As Vargas said, "sink and turn" is not some kind of wrestler-mystifying technique.

    Leave a comment:


  • Djimbe
    replied
    I was just trying to point out that the story (not Monkey's) is implausible because it rests on a pastiche of wrestling techniques that is possible only if you don't know anything about wrestling.

    The idea that wrestlers are totally confounded by rooting is ridiculous.
    Who proffered this Idea ? I just Re-Read the Thread , and I didnt See it Intimated by ANYONE . Who said that ?

    I was just pointing Out that an Ankle Pick would NEVER Blindside anyone from a Decent Taiji School , becuase its one of the most Obvious Applications of the Form that there could ever be .

    Leave a comment:

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