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Stupid People Being Suckered in by Religion: Negative Correlation With Intelligence

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    #91
    Originally posted by AeroChick
    Sure - billions of people on this planet are dying of poverty, disease, war, and climate change while a few percent live in luxury. Yeah, we've got it all figured out. I'll take God over hairless apes any day, if the current state of the world is what we are basing this on.


    And I think you just picked yourself the worst possible example of why to believe in God.

    The Spanish Inqusition
    Croatia
    English Civil War
    Huguenot Wars
    The Holocaust
    St. Bartholemew Massacre
    Tudor England
    400 years of witch hunts
    Al Qaeda
    Many, many Crusades

    I can go on for a very long time.

    Free and inter-depedent trade is the only thing that can and does raise us up from warfare. I can provide you with examples why if you want. They have nothing to do with God or religion. Religion has in fact tried to stifle and regress scientific knowledge and understanding throughout its history.

    Couple that with the idea of globalization, and you'll find the standards of living rising in all corners of the globe. This has nothing to do with God, but simple economics, advances in transportation, and global communications.




    now here's the funny as hell part. your first post on this thread was about you glorifying how rational you were... now all of a sudden, BILLIONS are dying? There's only roughly 7 billion people on the entire planet. We peaked at a 2.2 percent growth rate, and are sitting at about 1% now. If BILLIONS were dying, well... where the hell are all the bodies? Climate change melt them all? :) Sounds pretty irrational to me.

    Comment


      #92
      Originally posted by AeroChick
      What good is knowledge if it's not used to benefit the 'tribe'? That is something religion has always demanded (Christianity, anyways) - the concept of using your skills and resources to the benefit of others.

      Anyways, that's a bit of an unintended de-rail.
      That's a morality question. Fortunately, religion is not required for morality.

      Religion is an attempt to codify morality. That's why we have the amazingly insightful and brilliant seperation of church and state.

      It's a simple question, "Can I be good without God,"?

      I can; therefore, I do. I make the choice, not because I fear torture on a time scale unimaginable (the punishment for not believing in abrahamic religions)... but because I recognize it as a truth that transcends anybody's religious viewpoint.

      Comment


        #93
        The Spanish Inqusition
        Croatia
        English Civil War
        Huguenot Wars
        The Holocaust
        St. Bartholemew Massacre
        Tudor England
        400 years of witch hunts
        Al Qaeda
        Many, many Crusades

        I'll see that and raise you:

        The Reign of Terror
        The Great Leap Forward
        The Ukraine Famine
        Pol Pot's cleansing
        Hiroshima and Nagasaki
        Tianamen Square
        Many, many people tortured/executed by Communist dicatators

        My point is that religion and atheism/science both have their fair share of retards/oopsies, not that one is better than the other.

        Comment


          #94
          Originally posted by Vince Tortelli
          The Spanish Inqusition
          Croatia
          English Civil War
          Huguenot Wars
          The Holocaust
          St. Bartholemew Massacre
          Tudor England
          400 years of witch hunts
          Al Qaeda
          Many, many Crusades

          I'll see that and raise you:

          The Reign of Terror
          The Great Leap Forward
          The Ukraine Famine
          Pol Pot's cleansing
          Hiroshima and Nagasaki
          Tianamen Square
          Many, many people tortured/executed by Communist dicatators

          My point is that religion and atheism/science both have their fair share of retards/oopsies, not that one is better than the other.
          Not really. All of those (minus the nuclear weapon droppings, red herring, the B-29 fire bombings killed far, far more) are communist ideologies horrendous failings.

          Communism has a freakin' tremendous body count. Some just happen to claim atheism. The ones I listed are purely for religious reasons. If you want to call atheism a religion, okay, but it's still not the reason behind the tradgedies you listed. The reason was communism itself.

          Comment


            #95
            Actually, quite a few of the examples on your list are not "pure" religous stuff per se. (Al Quaeda = angry at US foreign policy, not just our religion, Holocaust had a great deal of pseudoscientifc stuff working behind it, not to mention that more of the Crusaders were motivated by loot and land than by purely religous causes). Then again, most large scale conflicts are motivated by a MIX of factors ranging from religous tensions, to a desire for more natrual resources, etc, etc. So it's hard to point at any given war and say: This was a religous war, or this was a secular war.
            And how was the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror a communist ideology horribly failing? It happened quite a while before Marx was born. "Cult of Reason" ring any bells?

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by Vince Tortelli
              And how was the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror a communist ideology horribly failing? It happened quite a while before Marx was born. "Cult of Reason" ring any bells?
              that's what I get for being in a hurry and skimming through the list.

              Comment


                #97
                It happens to us all. Thank you for continuing to participate in an equal exchange of ideas.
                We have too many threads of "Fag! Stop Posting!" "No, you are the fag, you stop posting!" already.

                Comment


                  #98

                  Comment


                    #99
                    Originally posted by indy007
                    And I think you just picked yourself the worst possible example of why to believe in God.

                    The Spanish Inqusition
                    Croatia
                    English Civil War
                    Huguenot Wars
                    The Holocaust
                    St. Bartholemew Massacre
                    Tudor England
                    400 years of witch hunts
                    Al Qaeda
                    Many, many Crusades

                    I can go on for a very long time.

                    Free and inter-depedent trade is the only thing that can and does raise us up from warfare. I can provide you with examples why if you want. They have nothing to do with God or religion. Religion has in fact tried to stifle and regress scientific knowledge and understanding throughout its history.

                    Couple that with the idea of globalization, and you'll find the standards of living rising in all corners of the globe. This has nothing to do with God, but simple economics, advances in transportation, and global communications.




                    now here's the funny as hell part. your first post on this thread was about you glorifying how rational you were... now all of a sudden, BILLIONS are dying? There's only roughly 7 billion people on the entire planet. We peaked at a 2.2 percent growth rate, and are sitting at about 1% now. If BILLIONS were dying, well... where the hell are all the bodies? Climate change melt them all? :) Sounds pretty irrational to me.

                    I'm sorry - there are some really good post here, but I'm rushing to get home. I'll get back to this in more detail soon, K.

                    And your list of evils perpetrated in the name of religion is correct and fair comment. People have always mis-used the power of religion for their own purposes, from political leaders to the Catholic church. I would say at least as much harm has been done in the name of religion as there has been benefit. How does this affect my own personal spirituality, my belief in the inherent Godliness in the universe, my experience of life and finding God? It doesn't it - it just makes me sad that so many have taken this beautiful concept and warped it.

                    Comment


                      The List of Evils of Religion isn't usually compiled to go "Hey, look, religious people do Bad Stuff, ergo, you are evil!" but rather to counter the commonly touted claim that religion leads to morals (or even that religion is required for morals). In this context it has relevance: If religion is so good, then why...?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Vince Tortelli
                        Anyway, it wasn't that long ago that science was all about bleeding people to remove the ill humors from the body and prescribing cocaine and heroine to help mentally ill people. So please don't try and sell me on the fact that t3h sci3nce has all the answers.
                        Science doesn't actually "have answers". It's a method to find the probability of an answer. It's not even remotely close to perfect. It's subject to paradigm shifts, political interference, fabricated results, etc, etc. However, it is currently the best tool we have for understanding.

                        and it's relatively easy to keep the convos civil, you just have to want it :)

                        Comment


                          If it was so easy, why is it so uncommon?
                          Anyway, the point I was trying to make was not that we should all join the Luddites and greet every dawn with a hym of praise to the Great Supreme Being, of Whatever Gender and Aspect We Imagine Him/Her/It/Them To Be, after which we go out and destroy machinery and machine users with our weapons of stone and wood.
                          My point is that, while Religion has lead to some Great Moments in Dumbassery, Science isn't exactly squeaky clean in this regard either. (Eugenics et al)

                          Comment


                            Correlation does not = cause and effect!!!! . Surely that renders this thread void.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by indy007
                              Couple that with the idea of globalization, and you'll find the standards of living rising in all corners of the globe. This has nothing to do with God, but simple economics, advances in transportation, and global communications.

                              now here's the funny as hell part. your first post on this thread was about you glorifying how rational you were... now all of a sudden, BILLIONS are dying? There's only roughly 7 billion people on the entire planet. We peaked at a 2.2 percent growth rate, and are sitting at about 1% now. If BILLIONS were dying, well... where the hell are all the bodies? Climate change melt them all? :) Sounds pretty irrational to me.
                              Now that I am home, I can answer this one properly.

                              To your first point, standards of living have not risen in all areas of the globe - according to Jeffrey Sachs in The End of Poverty, the economic growth in developing countries has been rather stagnant, leaving them in roughly the same position as they were in 1820 (the start of 'modern economic time'), while the west has enjoyed a stead 1.7% growth rate during that period, resulting in a 25 fold increase in living standards.

                              In The End of Poverty, Jeffery Sachs also quotes the World Bank figures for the number of people living in extreme and moderate poverty. He gives the figure of 1.1 BILLION people living in extreme poverty (defined as chroncially hungry, unable to meet basic needs for survival) and 1.6 BILLION in moderate poverty (defined as basic needs are met for some or all of a family, lacking some needs such as safe drinking water or sanitation). So in total, there are 2.6 BILLION people in the world who are dying - some faster than others, but all in a situation not conducive to survival. Add in a famine, tsunami, or genocidal war here and there, and it's a pretty ugly picture for much of the world's popluation.

                              There, does that sound more rational now?

                              Comment


                                There are, in fact, about six billion people in the world who are dying at varying rates, and more are born every minute.

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