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    #16
    this is a total load of crap:

    In response to your questions Ming: 1) the fed is a semi autonomous, pseudo government entity. It is overseen by the US government, the president appoints a chairman to 14 year terms and the chairman must report to congress frequently. But it is also a corporation owned by member banks. Alot of care was taken when creating the fed to ensure that the fed was independent and couldnt be pressured, (much like how the supreme court was structured) it would be too tempting for people in government (like the president or congress) to say pressure the fed to lower interest rates to 0% in an election year to stimulate economic growth.

    2) The federal reserve has little to do with the Treasury. The Treasury is in charge of the currency and issuing bonds and collecting funds for the gov't. The Fed is in charge of the banking industry, monitoring inflation and the economy.

    The fed doesn't loan money to us at interest. It loans money to other banking institutions at interest. This is whats known as the fed funds rate.

    The fed can also increase or decrease the money supply, by doing open market operations which are buying or selling treasury securities. the amount of liquidity in the system affects interest rates.

    Lastly, the fed can control the amount of reserve requirements banks must keep on hand. this in turn will afect the money supply and increase or decrease liquidity.

    Don't believe all the videos you see. They are filled with half truths, generalizations, and flat out lies! just watch a michael moore movie to see what I mean......

    Anyways, everybody knows that the economy is controlled by the five jew bankers:-)

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      #17
      why doesn't it have transparency? (ownership, activities etc)

      Why was it neccessary to move away from the gold standard to the federal reserve system?

      Do you contest that the people involved in its creation were not the 'money trust' (above movie) and doing it for their own interest rather than the good of the economy?

      What was the role of the federal reserve during the great depression? Didn't it do a shitty job?

      In this video Alan Greenspan admits America did very well on the gold standard

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjMQG3qUFKo

      John Stewart (Daily Show) asks

      "So, why do we have a Fed?"..."Wouldn't the market take care of interest rates and all that? Why would we have someone adjusting the rates if we are a free market society?"

      Greenspan's answer: "You didn't need a central bank when you were on a gold standard."

      To me it is pretty clear that your point

      Originally posted by gojoJKDdude
      Alot of care was taken when creating the fed to ensure that the fed was independent and couldnt be pressured, (much like how the supreme court was structured) it would be too tempting for people in government (like the president or congress) to say pressure the fed to lower interest rates to 0% in an election year to stimulate economic growth.
      is overshadowed by the fact your government is runaway spending and increasing the national debt. The federal reserve system looks like it has pretty much failed to be independant or control inflation.

      Comment


        #18
        The population will outgrow the amount of gold we have. And inflation will make exchanging goods for gold unrealistic.

        Also, using a gold standard is also totally arbitrary. Gold, like money,silver, cars only have value because we all agree to let it have value. In developing countried guns take the place of gold. The man with the gun can 'buy' whatever he wants because we all respect the value of a gun.

        GD conspiracy theories...

        How much of a conspiracy is it that wealthy people work with other wealthy people to remain wealthy and expand their wealth. That is no conspiracy.

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          #19
          This is a mind bender...

          Are you saying wealthy people have habits conducive to wealth retention??

          Cuz what if the Illuminati mistakenly put a dolt in an important position? I mean, in 15,000 years, you'd think it'd happen at least once and the moran would spill the beans.

          Unless the whole Satan thing keeps them perfect in that regard.
          Last edited by Nid; 10/18/2007 9:20am, .

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by cyrijl
            How much of a conspiracy is it that wealthy people work with other wealthy people to remain wealthy and expand their wealth. That is no conspiracy.
            right, but what about a small group of very wealthy people orchestrating a bank scare or a market crash to steal money from other wealthy people.

            that sounds like a conspiracy to me.

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              #21
              That sounds like business as usual.:zicon_ram

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by cyrijl
                How much of a conspiracy is it that wealthy people work with other wealthy people to remain wealthy and expand their wealth. That is no conspiracy.
                Under normal circumstances, wealthy people conspire with other wealthy peaople to take money from still other wealthy people because as John Dillinger noted, "That's where the money is." Conspiracy is when they all get together and go after our nickels instead, which they are rarely stupid enough to do.

                Comment


                  #23
                  [QUOTE=Arhetton]why doesn't it have transparency? (ownership, activities etc)

                  Why was it neccessary to move away from the gold standard to the federal reserve system?

                  Do you contest that the people involved in its creation were not the 'money trust' (above movie) and doing it for their own interest rather than the good of the economy?


                  I really dont mean to be condescending or pretentious, but Im going to have to be.

                  In response to your points:

                  Why was it neccessary to move away from the gold standard to the federal reserve system?

                  - Going off the gold standard was an economic necessity and has nothing to do with the federal reserve. There were alot of reasons why almost ALL the Countries in the world went off the gold standard, but I think the most obvious reason is that Gold isnt at the epicenter of our economy like it was 200 years ago. Credit has replaced gold. There aren't gallions filled with gold going back and forth across the atlantic so countries can settle debts, and we dont carry gold around when we want to pay for things .

                  why doesn't it have transparency? (ownership, activities etc)

                  - The federal reserve is transparent and is overseen by congress, the minutes of the fed governors meetings are open to the public. So I dont know what you are talking about.

                  -Do you contest that the people involved in its creation were not the 'money trust' (above movie) and doing it for their own interest rather than the good of the economy?

                  YES

                  What was the role of the federal reserve during the great depression? Didn't it do a shitty job?

                  The fed wasnt responsible for the great deppression but it did make things worse when it tightened the money supply instead of providing liquidity. The fed has learned from its mistakes and is a constantly evolving entity.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    "is overshadowed by the fact your government is runaway spending and increasing the national debt. The federal reserve system looks like it has pretty much failed to be independant or control inflation."

                    Sorry I missed this one. The federal reserve doesent control Government spending, Congress is responsible for setting a budget and setting spending, which affects the national debt. Having said this if you look at gov't spending and the deficit as A percentage of GDP they are within normal ranges.

                    - Considering that inflation has been at 1-2% for the past decade, and in the last 20 years we have been in recessions only 6% of the time, I would have to say you are dead wrong on this issue....

                    prior to the federal reserve Bank panics were common, economic gyrations were rampant and far more severe and the markets were far less transparent..

                    Comment


                      #25
                      GojuJKD forgot to add that if you didn't have a Federal Reserve, the latest financial scandal (subprime mortgages) would've buried the world economy in the largest credit crunch in history. Because the Fed and other central banks act as a lender of last resort to the banks, they were able to inject liquidity into the system that would have otherwise ground to a halt. The dominoes would've started to fall.

                      FWIW, that means that eventually your bank wouldn't allow you to access your funds, and would require you to settle ALL your debts NOW. Imagine that happening to the entire world at one time.

                      Instead, you got a little bit of market jitters and a few bankruptcies of some very aggressive hedge funds and interest rate arbitrage firms. Nothing compared to say, the dot com meltdown.

                      Arhetton, there are plenty of conspiracies out there, but the Fed is essential to the modern financial system. And it works.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by gojuJKDdude
                        ...the five jew bankers:-)
                        What about the Lesbian Periodontist Cartel? ^_^

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by HappyOldGuy
                          Under normal circumstances, wealthy people conspire with other wealthy peaople to take money from still other wealthy people because as John Dillinger noted, "That's where the money is." Conspiracy is when they all get together and go after our nickels instead, which they are rarely stupid enough to do.
                          It's not stupid when the president and his friends own stock in the Military Industrial Complex and then decide to "go to war" to "preserve democracy" (You know, I thought that that sounded weird when Bush said that, & then I looked up some stuff on Wilson, he said the same thing to get the U.S. into WWI)
                          Anywhere else in the world, in any other field, that would be called a Conflict of Interests.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by wiki
                            Centralized banking was met with much opposition from politicians, who were suspicious of a central bank and who charged that Aldrich was biased due to his close ties to wealthy bankers such as JP Morgan and his daughter's marriage to John D. Rockefeller, Jr. In 1910, Aldrich and executives representing the banks of J.P. Morgan, Rockefeller, and Kuhn, Loeb, & Co., secluded themselves for 10 days at Jekyll Island, Georgia. The executives included Frank Vanderlip, president of the National City Bank of New York, associated with the Rockefellers; Henry Davison, senior partner of J. P Morgan Company; Charles D. Norton, president of the First National Bank of New York; and Col. Edward House, who would later become President Woodrow Wilson's closest adviser and founder of the Council on Foreign Relations
                            True or False? Thats what I was asking.

                            Gold 200 years ago? Did you watch the video with Greenspan? Greenspan was a strong advocate of a return to a gold standard up until the time he took his job with the Fed.

                            Originally posted by Feryk
                            Arhetton, there are plenty of conspiracies out there, but the Fed is essential to the modern financial system. And it works.
                            I don't subscribe to the 'illuminati templar european bankers' version of some of the conspiracies. What I am interested in is claims about
                            - How the Fed came to be (who did it, what were their motives etc)
                            - The function of the Fed and whether or not it should be replaced

                            Essential to the modern financial system: Reform is possible IMO

                            And it works:


                            The value of $1 over time, in 1776 dollars.

                            First bank of US - 1791 - 1811
                            Second bank of US - 1816 - 1836
                            National Banking Act - 1864
                            Federal Reserve Act - 1913

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Arhetton


                              And it works:


                              The value of $1 over time, in 1776 dollars.

                              First bank of US - 1791 - 1811
                              Second bank of US - 1816 - 1836
                              National Banking Act - 1864
                              Federal Reserve Act - 1913

                              The value of the dollar has decreased over time because of inflation which is normal and expected and again, has very little to do with the fed.

                              It also has to do with the time value of money...

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Yeah a few little things.

                                The Fed has never been very transparent because Fed officials have always kind of had the philosophy that if the market knows what you're going to do tomorrow, they'll react accordingly, and make your negate your action.
                                Currently the Fed is working to make their operations more transparent, by releasing the minutes of the FOMC meeting (they didn't use to do that).

                                The Fed is semi-autonomous, with good reason. Any president would love for the Fed to add some cash to the economy before an election, get things booming for a little, keep him in office. It's not entirely autonomous, the Chairman of the Fed has to report to Congress, and he's nominated by the President, approved by Congress.

                                An interesting sidenote is that Great Depression was largle caused by Hoover collaborating with the Chairman of the Fed at that time, Roy Young if I remember correctly. Hoover, with Young, believed that the stock market was largely based on speculation (somewhat true), and, as speculation is a form of gambling, they started removing liquidity from the system. After the crash, they failed to add liquidity to the market, thus causing the worst economic crisis in modern times. If they had done this today, the recent subprime mortgage collapse would have probably caused a similar crisis. Fed autonomy is a good thing.

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