Some pages on Philipino & Okinawan wrestling

[LLL]

Dumog: http://www.texaskali.org/Essays/ground_combat_fighting_.htm
http://www.ironpinoy.com/pankration/images/pages/dumog01_jpg.htm

Tegumi: http://www.geoffthompson.com/guest_writers/IanAbernethy/Guest_Writers_Iain_Abernethy_page16.htm

[deltaforce]

and then they say that in karate there are not grappling techniques!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheHungsta]

No one says that. Karate grappling is actually quite effective, though some of the applications are unrealistic.

[PeedeeShaolin]

Karate has no grappling.

I can find you a ebsite where people claim that aliens populated the earth. It means about the same as that link: shiit. All I see is a few guys in silk pajamas trying to figure out what they're doing.

Karate has no grappling.

I trained in karate over 20 years ago under one of the highest okinowan karate instructors, Nixk Adler, who is now 9th dan. There was no grappling back then, and there is no magical grappling that mysteriously appeared.

You know where Karate grappling originated? Some karate guy bought a Gracie Jiu Jitsu instructional tape and decided to call it "Karate ground fighting techniques" instead of BJJ.

Case solved.

[MrMcFu]

That last link seems to be where delta gets most of his evidence.

[deltaforce]

i do not need to get evidence by anyone, i do not know if you have understood but i am very experienced in okinawan karate i teach and go to international stages. i had and continue having the luck to train with good okinwan (in okinawa) and japanese instructors in europe (original)

so please do not say bullshit playing the part of an expert because i ask you 2 questions and i show to everyone your ingnorance.i do not know who is this addler, which is his style , lineage?????9 dan?????????? strange becasuein okinwa great masters have 8 dan, who gave him and his affiliation??

unfortunately i cannot demonstrate physically the grappling techniques but i simply say that peedee your instructor is not aware of it


karate is a predominant a strike martial art but has also grappling (tegumi)and throws, which are regularly included in the katas.Funakoshi in his book (karate jutsu-kodansha)say exactly this words and invite the reader to study joint manipulations and throw referring to the relevant katas.Motobu say the same in his book.

now this an interview with zempo shi you know who is??? i doubt it but i know thatokinwan expert know what i mean.
The Karate of Chotoku Kyan
Interview with the Seibukan's Zenpo Shimabukuro


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Zenpo Shimabukuro sensei is an exceptional instructor with a pedigree that stretches back through his father, Zenryo, to his teacher, the legendary master of Shorin Ryu karate, Chotoku Kyan. This interview is his first appearance in Dragon Times, although we are sure that, as he is currently producing a video with Tsunami Productions, it will not be his last. We are indebted to Mr. Dan Smith of the Seibukan for his help with this interview.

The Karate of Chotoku Kyan
Interview with the Seibukan's Zenpo Shimabukuro
Dragon Times: Does your style include grappling, restraining, and throwing techniques?

Zenpo Shimabukuro: Yes, all Okinawan styles have these type of techniques but the emphasis is placed on striking. Once you have developed good evasion and striking skills throwing becomes easy. Also, if you form the techniques of Shorin Ryu properly it is very difficult to apply grappling techniques.

http://www.dragon-tsunami.org/Dtimes/Pages/article27.htm

so please do not demonstrate your ignorance i do not speak about mma because i am not an expert o the same macfufufu and pee

[LLL]

Hmmp, I read about Tegumi before I knew BJJ existed, but of course that proves nothing. However, it must be realized that usually Tegumi is NOT considered to be a part of Karate, it is a separate style; Okinawan wrestling. It's older than Karate, as wrestling styles pretty much always are.

Dumog also is older than Kali; Shuai Chiao is older than KungFu, etc, but naturally they have also affected the later arts.

& PeeDee I read your opinion about this already under a separate topic, but of course I can't stop you from repeating it here ;).



Edited by - LLL on August 31 2003 14:00:58

[deltaforce]

if we want be precise that part of okinwa karate on grappling that has be influenced by tegumi is called tuite and it is included in katas (as several okinawa teachers affirm)I called tegumi to make the concept more simple.