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    #31
    Originally posted by battlefields View Post
    Wait, is this thread about protesters or rioters?
    Depends on the locale and information sources. Also apparently depends on time of day or night.
    Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

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      #32
      Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

      Depends on the locale and information sources. Also apparently depends on time of day or night.
      Yep, can’t argue with that...

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        #33
        Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

        So let the federal buildings burn? I'm in no way condoning the beat down of the Navy cat who was baiting the officers. There is a point where peaceful assembly to protest turns to riotous assault. If the local elected leaders would let their police do the job the Feds would not be there.

        Again, I ask. Let the mob burn the buildings? What would Mayor Keslet do?
        No, I’m not in favor of wanton destruction, but it takes more than a bit of graffiti (the original impetus in Portland by their own report) to get me writing off fundamental civil rights as the price of doing business...

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          #34
          Originally posted by battlefields View Post
          Wait, is this thread about protesters or rioters?
          Yes and no (where the line is drawn is pretty subjective)...

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            #35
            Originally posted by Keslet View Post


            whether you believe they should or not, protests are often heated (after all, the reason people are protesting is because they feel strongly about something), and are still not to be suppressed. Authorities tend to vary on how good they are at sucking up their ‘antagonism’ depending on the person doing the screaming and the cause they’re screaming about.

            It also shouldn’t be naive to attend a public protest and expect to not be attacked by the authorities as a citizen of this nation. There is ample video evidence of cops going way overboard in their reactions against these protests against police brutality (perceive the irony or not), and I just don’t accept your excuse...law enforcement has been given tremendous responsibility in the tools they are given to do their job, and they Damn well should be expected to respond with far more discipline than ‘tit-for-tat’ retaliation.

            Let me say it straight, the feds going into the cities are escalating the situations, which happens to play right into Trump’s narrative of needing a ‘strongman’ president and the cities being dystopian warrens on the brink of collapse. I would not be shocked to find this is by design...he needs to fire up his base with a little class warfare.

            The number of people who have sworn oaths to our constitution and then perform these actions disgusts me.
            We’re going in circles so I’ll agree to disagree, I just suggest you watch more clips with less editing.
            Ne Obliviscaris

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              #36
              Originally posted by Kovacs View Post

              We’re going in circles so I’ll agree to disagree, I just suggest you watch more clips with less editing.
              Fair enough, cheers

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                #37
                The things that's bothering me are the intentional headshots that I'm seeing on video. Remember. The police are not allowed to shoot ANYTHING at peaceful protestors. Nothing. They don't get a pass for it. If there is a failure to investigate the security forces that are responsible for these things and bring the guilty parties to justice then it is even worse than protecting private citizen criminals from investigation.

                Why do I feel like I'm shouting down a long empty corridor that used to be populated by small government republiacans and getting treated like a crazy drunk that wandered in off the streets?

                Sure, all of those things might be true about me but that doesn't change the fact that none of this shit should be allowed and we fought a revolutionary war to stop shit like this from happening. No one in America should ever be above the law, especially not the law itself.
                Last edited by Dung Beatles; 7/28/2020 9:09pm, .
                "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post
                  The things that's bothering me are the intentional headshots that I'm seeing on video. Remember. The police are not allowed to shoot ANYTHING at peaceful protestors. Nothing. They don't get a pass for it. If there is a failure to investigate the security forces that are responsible for these things and bring the guilty parties to justice then it is even worse than protecting private citizen criminals from investigation.

                  Why do I feel like I'm shouting down a long empty corridor that used to be populated by small government republiacans and getting treated like a crazy drunk that wandered in off the streets?

                  Sure, all of those things might be true about me but that doesn't change the fact that none of this shit should be allowed and we fought a revolutionary war to stop shit like this from happening. No one in America should ever be above the law, especially not the law itself.
                  The police have nothing to do with this. They're not being allowed to do their job. Nobody's condoning head shots. How about you put the blame where it lies. City and State leaders pulling the police, leaving the Feds to protect Federal property.

                  Keslet wouldn't answer. Maybe you will. What would lord/mayor/governer Dung Beatles do different?
                  Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

                  http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Frankly, I'm surprised some Federal agent hasn't pulled lethal force and capped some people. Mortars? Lasers? Molotov cocktails? Sharpened PVC pipes? Sprayers with piss? Bricks?

                    What say you?
                    Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

                    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

                      The police have nothing to do with this. They're not being allowed to do their job. Nobody's condoning head shots. How about you put the blame where it lies. City and State leaders pulling the police, leaving the Feds to protect Federal property.

                      Keslet wouldn't answer. Maybe you will. What would lord/mayor/governer Dung Beatles do different?
                      Hahahahaha. So the police have nothing to do with the protests that were started because of police brutality?? Hahahahaha.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post
                        Frankly, I'm surprised some Federal agent hasn't pulled lethal force and capped some people. Mortars? Lasers? Molotov cocktails? Sharpened PVC pipes? Sprayers with piss? Bricks?

                        What say you?
                        In the words of Bas Rutten, never escalate a fight you're losing. A great way to get torn apart by a angry mob of thousands would be to push to the point of "gloves off". A better plan would have been to address the issue a decade ago by actually having accountability in law enforcement, but sadly that ship has sailed. What did you think the result would be when all the cops seem to think they're Eliot Ness??

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

                          The police have nothing to do with this. They're not being allowed to do their job. Nobody's condoning head shots. How about you put the blame where it lies. City and State leaders pulling the police, leaving the Feds to protect Federal property.

                          Keslet wouldn't answer. Maybe you will. What would lord/mayor/governer Dung Beatles do different?

                          sorry, you’re right, I didn’t give you a direct answer. Okay, what would I do differently?

                          De-escalate the immediate situation and work with the involved parties to address legitimate concerns. That means talking, not gassing or hitting.

                          I was a Crisis Services Clinician for the better part of a decade, which involved a lot of ongoing training and application of crisis intervention techniques up to and including physical restraints. Most of that period I worked overnight shifts, and knew many of the police throughout our county as they all brought people to us for assessment, intervention, hospitalization, etc. Being screamed at, spit on, swung at, kicked...not an unusual occurrence.

                          I was actively kickboxing at that time...number of patients I just lost it with and punched? Zero. I rarely had to restrain my own patients...i was really pretty good at verbal de-escalation, the first and most important step in our training. But, as usually the biggest and strongest person on shift at night (including our minimum wage security guards), I was involved in every restraint that went down...we did them as a team and followed our training, I never injured a patient, and we never had the muscle and man power you might expect (maybe me and 2 female social workers). I’ve been seeing a lot of videos of police taking people down, and often they don’t look great...lot of brute force and pain compliance, getting out weapons (we had none), trying to beat someone into submission...loss of control.

                          Laying hands on someone meant everything else had failed, it was our last option. We always kept one bed set up with leather restraints, but hoped to not have to use it. Even when restraining a person we were trained to talk to them calmly, explain why we were holding them, what needed to happen next, and always coming from the place of protecting them and others from harm.

                          There are too many places recently where this flat out isn’t happening. Some places have had mayors, police chiefs, etc. show up and really talk to the protestors, and that’s great. Others have military veterans being beaten on public streets, a sitting congress person and city councilman being pepper sprayed while they are talking to protestors (which happened here in Columbus), military forces being deployed to clear the way for a stupid photo-op...I’m sorry, this is way too low a bar for the conduct of law enforcement personnel.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Keslet View Post
                            De-escalate the immediate situation and work with the involved parties to address legitimate concerns. That means talking, not gassing or hitting.
                            Does not address the reality that there are a substantial number of people trying wreak havoc by destroying property and injuring others. The local leaders have failed the people.

                            I'm not condoning beating the protesters. I fully support their right to peaceably assemble. That's not what we're addressing here. The gas has come out when it's been determined that a protest has turned to something else.

                            Kudos on your previous work.
                            Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

                            http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
                              Eliot Ness??
                              Gratuitous Eliot Ness reference.

                              Eliot Ness, the righteous and virtuous crime fighter died from a massive coronary; a cheated and betrayed broke alcoholic in his 50's. Apparently he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but he was a good man who couldn't cash in even when he tried.
                              "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post

                                Gratuitous Eliot Ness reference.

                                Eliot Ness, the righteous and virtuous crime fighter died from a massive coronary; a cheated and betrayed broke alcoholic in his 50's. Apparently he rubbed a lot of people the wrong way but he was a good man who couldn't cash in even when he tried.
                                He was the embodiment of entitled positions of power. And all for the failed war on booze. I find it ironic he became an alcoholic.

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