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Is US "the new Italy" on Covid?

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  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

    Wasn't it your Govenor who put the sick old people in with the old not sick people, killing many?
    Not that I'm aware of.

    There was a lot of mortality in nursing homes because that's essentially what happened, although that has a lot to do with the horrid way that nursing homes are run, with inadequate and unsafe staffing and inadequate PPE, so that both seniors and the staff got sick. Not far from where I live a certain nursing home, which looks very nice on the outside, had the state get involved in an investigation due to an enormous amount of deaths.

    The situation of nursing homes in the United States is absolutely disgusting and itself can be pointed to as a clear cut failure of the privatized health care model as it currently stands in the US. There are some areas where it does well but nursing homes are an example of failure.

    As I understand it in nursing homes we are talking 1 registered nurse for like 30 patients or more. Pretty disgusting when you consider how expensive they tend to be. I once had a massage therapist who used to be a CNA who worked at the nursing home I mentioned above. She told me that the CNAs used to cry in the closet because they were so overworked and were unable to properly care for the seniors.

    Leave a comment:


  • hungryjoe
    replied
    Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post

    I think this is one of the best criticisms that can be made of US-style private sector healthcare. Private sector healthcare as run in the US cannot maintain excess capacity at the levels that would be needed to respond to a major pandemic such as COVID. People who would like to advocate for socialized medicine should argue that it would be possible for the government to fund a healthcare excess capacity in a way the current private sector cannot. The rationale for doing so would be similar to the rationale for the US government to maintain excess military capcity.


    In terms of the idea of the elderly being intentionally abandoned as some kind of demographic strategic move, I would say that would be giving Donald Trump and his political appointees too much credit for being able to come up with an evil plan and implement it without leaks and actually achieve desired goals. He probably wouldn't be able to help himself from going on Twitter and saying "Everyone who died in a nursing home was an antifa agitator and consumer of entitlements (medicare and social security) bwah hwah hwah! They hated our freedoms and pulled down a statue of Thomas Jefferson somewhere."
    Wasn't it your Govenor who put the sick old people in with the old not sick people, killing many?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    Originally posted by PDA View Post

    The private sector health system does seam to be a bit flaky when there is a national crisis.

    The NHS for all its fuckups did maintain excess capacity throughout.

    Its just a shame that as the US , care homes did not receive the focus early on which for the UK at least would have halved our death rate.

    A cynical mind would perhaps suggest that there was a point during the crisis where a decision was made to sacrifice the elderly within care homes for the sake of the young as society generally doesnt give a shit about them anyway.

    Of course I would never be that cynical.


    I think this is one of the best criticisms that can be made of US-style private sector healthcare. Private sector healthcare as run in the US cannot maintain excess capacity at the levels that would be needed to respond to a major pandemic such as COVID. People who would like to advocate for socialized medicine should argue that it would be possible for the government to fund a healthcare excess capacity in a way the current private sector cannot. The rationale for doing so would be similar to the rationale for the US government to maintain excess military capcity.


    In terms of the idea of the elderly being intentionally abandoned as some kind of demographic strategic move, I would say that would be giving Donald Trump and his political appointees too much credit for being able to come up with an evil plan and implement it without leaks and actually achieve desired goals. He probably wouldn't be able to help himself from going on Twitter and saying "Everyone who died in a nursing home was an antifa agitator and consumer of entitlements (medicare and social security) bwah hwah hwah! They hated our freedoms and pulled down a statue of Thomas Jefferson somewhere."

    Leave a comment:


  • PDA
    replied
    Originally posted by Wounded Ronin View Post
    I found a report on that subject from the American Hospital Association: https://www.aha.org/guidesreports/20...-pressures-due

    From the article:



    The other thing that I would say is that the US is such a big place with such variable hospital capacity from region to region that there's always going to be a certain amount of distortion in generalizing.

    From what I've personally seen, some health care workers have gotten sick, in some facilities there have been lack of basic PPE, and revenues for hospitals are indeed down due to less elective surgery which is apparently a big money maker. I'm aware of staff furloughs at acute care hospitals although my impression is that it's more administrators, since you can't operate a hospital without front line healthcare staff. I've seen psychiatric facilities go from hiring psych nurses to laying them off. Nursing homes have apparently been a disaster. So, it's definitely made an impact.
    The private sector health system does seam to be a bit flaky when there is a national crisis.

    The NHS for all its fuckups did maintain excess capacity throughout.

    Its just a shame that as the US , care homes did not receive the focus early on which for the UK at least would have halved our death rate.

    A cynical mind would perhaps suggest that there was a point during the crisis where a decision was made to sacrifice the elderly within care homes for the sake of the young as society generally doesnt give a shit about them anyway.

    Of course I would never be that cynical.



    Leave a comment:


  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    I found a report on that subject from the American Hospital Association: https://www.aha.org/guidesreports/20...-pressures-due

    From the article:

    These challenges have created historic financial pressures for America’s hospitals and health systems. Hospitals have cancelled non-emergency procedures, and many Americans are postponing care as they shelter in place to stop the spread of the virus. Treatment for COVID-19 has created incredible demand for certain medical equipment and supplies as the virus has disrupted supply chains, increasing the costs that hospitals face to treat COVID-19 patients. At the same time, COVID-19 has led to unprecedented job losses, giving way to a rise in the number of uninsured. And while doctors, nurses, and other health care workers have met the COVID-19 challenge with heroic efforts, many hospitals and health systems, especially those located in hotspot areas of the pandemic, are supporting them by providing essentials like child care, transportation, and in some cases, housing.

    Hospitals and health systems face catastrophic financial challenges in light of the COVID-19 pandemic. The American Hospital Association (AHA) undertook four analyses to better understand and quantify these financial challenges. Including:
    • the effect of COVID-19 hospitalizations on hospital costs;
    • the effect of cancelled and forgone services, caused by COVID-19, on hospital revenue;
    • the additional costs associated with purchasing needed personal protective equipment (PPE); and
    • the costs of the additional support some hospitals are providing to their workers.

    This report attempts to quantify these effects over the short-term, which are limited to the impacts over a four-month period from March 1, 2020 to June 30, 2020. Based on these analyses, the AHA estimates a total four-month financial impact of $202.6 billion in losses for America’s hospitals and health systems, or an average of $50.7 billion per month.
    The other thing that I would say is that the US is such a big place with such variable hospital capacity from region to region that there's always going to be a certain amount of distortion in generalizing.

    From what I've personally seen, some health care workers have gotten sick, in some facilities there have been lack of basic PPE, and revenues for hospitals are indeed down due to less elective surgery which is apparently a big money maker. I'm aware of staff furloughs at acute care hospitals although my impression is that it's more administrators, since you can't operate a hospital without front line healthcare staff. I've seen psychiatric facilities go from hiring psych nurses to laying them off. Nursing homes have apparently been a disaster. So, it's definitely made an impact.

    Leave a comment:


  • PDA
    replied
    Italy was worse case scenario because of the way they coped with
    it not the amount of cases.

    their hospitals were overrun and they were turning people away and only treating people who had a high chance of survival .

    The U.K. stats wise isn’t much different from Italy but depending on who you speak to and how you look at the facts has coped well .

    How are your hospitals coping?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wounded Ronin
    started a topic Is US "the new Italy" on Covid?

    Is US "the new Italy" on Covid?

    Today I read an article which I found was pretty depressing. Politico's article points out that while Italy was once held up as some kind of horror story of worst case scenario for covid, but now the US is reporting more cases than Italy had at its peak while Italy's reported cases are down to a fraction of what they were. It blames the politiciziation of covid in the United States.

    It makes me sad. People are so invested in partisan politics they care more about that than a body count that rivals the US body counts from some 20th century wars.

    When 9/11 happened, the number of deaths was a lot lower, and yet for a short time the US focused on a common goal or objective. Somehow, Donald Trump managed to twist people so much that something comes and kills more people than 9/11, and Americans just want to turn on each other. How can anyone say that Donald Trump is not the worst thing to happen to the United States ever? It's amazing how that man was able to make Americans distrust each other more than anyone else in the world. 9/11 was nothing compared to this event and you have people refusing to try and prevent the spread of the infection mostly because of identity politics.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...navirus-333122

    Apparently I am getting a 403 forbidden when I try to copy and paste parts of the article so I would encourage people to simply click the link.

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