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    Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

    We can compare outcomes of both our health care systems, in an honest way, if you like.

    But if you just want to use anecdotes, I can come up with all kinds of positive ones for our health care system and negative ones for yours; if you just want to engage in a shit throwing contest.
    Why, were you someone's sports coach who had to deal with one of your athletes not getting an MRI in a timely manner?

    Because that is not exactly hearsay.

    BKR did not hear an account from someone,

    he was a coach, in a coaching role, and that is a participatory role with an athlete, regarding their training and health management from a sports perspective.

    Do you have an account where you were in that kind of active participant role as opposed to a hearsay account?

    I am sure every U.S. poster here can make such posts, if you cannot.

    There are plenty of errors, and frustrations regarding the US healthcare system.

    I can't speak to the Canadian system as I have never used it,

    and I don't read it's numbers as much as I used to anymore,

    because it is a lack luster system compared to other socialized medicine systems,

    by the numbers.

    Now, there are other socialized medicine systems, such as France, that are more interesting social healthcare systems to examine,

    because France's system not only is not lackluster, as Canada's is,

    but is actually good little model.

    There are some trade offs, but on the important metrics France's system does a noteworthy job.

    Comment


      There’s a number of systems that perform better than Canada’s. Norway comes to mind as one that is routinely rated very highly. I think the UK is better too. Comparing ours to the US is kind of pointless, it’s such a low bar to clear. We should be looking to the other countries to see how to improve.

      Comment


        Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

        We can compare outcomes of both our health care systems, in an honest way, if you like.

        But if you just want to use anecdotes, I can come up with all kinds of positive ones for our health care system and negative ones for yours; if you just want to engage in a shit throwing contest.
        Has the UK got a better healtcare system? Certainly. Can America afford to do the same? Sure. Will we? No. We won't ever in my lifetime even if the entire works of the US Gov't comes crashing down and must be rebuilt. You're arguing from the perspective of a person who doesn't understand that our institutions are not built in a way where the entire government can turn on a dime or cooperate across states to achieve a common goal. There will always be about half of the states that will utterly undermine the will of the federal government. We're built to be a fiercely independent country and socialized medicine might as well be an attempt to migrate the country to Mars.

        Even if the "Democratic Socialists" wing of the liberals wins both houses of congress, the White House and the SCOTUS, it still wouldn't happen. Especially not those poisonous assholes because they are about as interested in actually achieving their stated version of effective governance as those dumb fucks in MAGA hats are as interested in getting payments from Mexico for the border wall. There is a cancer in America. We are a falling empire. Both parties are fatally compromised no matter what happens next election. The same cancer that has infected the GOP has infected the American liberals in the form of the "Bernie Bro" aka the anti-intellectual socialist.

        I have met these fucking idiots, they're every bad combination of misplaced passions and total ignorance. They don't read books. They don't know history. They do not understand basic civics. They will undermine and burn down everything they don't understand, which happens to be almost everything including their own institutions. They're the liberal version of the guys who believe GW Bush was a RINO.
        Last edited by Dung Beatles; 4/16/2020 8:34am, .
        "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

        Comment


          Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post

          I don't know how much stock I put in it but supposedly the FDA approved a new MRI machine that only costs $50,000 and is a small fraction of the size and cost to operate the existing units.
          All I know is I went without insurance for years and happily as it just didn't matter.
          If you are healthy
          Doctors visits are just not that expensive
          Lab work when you pick the lab also not that expensive
          Generic drugs from Walmart or Costco also not that expensive
          Key words here are healthy

          Back to your quote and my point?

          I paid $200 to get an MRI without insurance.
          Key thing here to note is I picked who did the MRI I was able to use the market
          So??? Um,... MRI scans really are not all that expensive to begin with.
          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
          George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

          Comment


            Originally posted by goodlun View Post

            All I know is I went without insurance for years and happily as it just didn't matter.
            If you are healthy
            Doctors visits are just not that expensive
            Lab work when you pick the lab also not that expensive
            Generic drugs from Walmart or Costco also not that expensive
            Key words here are healthy

            Back to your quote and my point?

            I paid $200 to get an MRI without insurance.
            Key thing here to note is I picked who did the MRI I was able to use the market
            So??? Um,... MRI scans really are not all that expensive to begin with.
            I spent the last 2 years fighting cancer without insurance and LUPUS for the last 8 (before I even knew it was LUPUS). I'm not really sure if you're trying to inform others or myself.
            "Pave the way for the little guy, Caligula!" Harry Solomon, September 28, 1999

            Comment


              Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post

              I spent the last 2 years fighting cancer without insurance and LUPUS for the last 8 (before I even knew it was LUPUS). I'm not really sure if you're trying to inform others or myself.
              Others mostly people don't seem to understand that you can get reasonably decent health care out of pocket for not terrible prices(especially in comparison of paying for insurance than all of the other fees that go with it).
              I mean I am somewhat appalled that my employer spends something like $1500/mo to insure my family of 3.
              We don't come even close to using $1500/mo worth of medical services if we where paying for the medical services we do use out of pocket.
              Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
              George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

              Comment


                Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

                Why, were you someone's sports coach who had to deal with one of your athletes not getting an MRI in a timely manner?

                Because that is not exactly hearsay.

                BKR did not hear an account from someone,

                he was a coach, in a coaching role, and that is a participatory role with an athlete, regarding their training and health management from a sports perspective.

                Do you have an account where you were in that kind of active participant role as opposed to a hearsay account?

                I am sure every U.S. poster here can make such posts, if you cannot.

                There are plenty of errors, and frustrations regarding the US healthcare system.

                I can't speak to the Canadian system as I have never used it,

                and I don't read it's numbers as much as I used to anymore,

                because it is a lack luster system compared to other socialized medicine systems,

                by the numbers.

                Now, there are other socialized medicine systems, such as France, that are more interesting social healthcare systems to examine,

                because France's system not only is not lackluster, as Canada's is,

                but is actually good little model.

                There are some trade offs, but on the important metrics France's system does a noteworthy job.
                Hearsay I,

                What in bkrs example would indicate fault in operation and implementation of the care system and not to the care of first physician?

                As Neil pointed out already

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Dung Beatles View Post

                  Has the UK got a better healtcare system? Certainly. Can America afford to do the same? Sure. Will we? No. We won't ever in my lifetime even if the entire works of the US Gov't comes crashing down and must be rebuilt. You're arguing from the perspective of a person who doesn't understand that our institutions are not built in a way where the entire government can turn on a dime or cooperate across states to achieve a common goal. There will always be about half of the states that will utterly undermine the will of the federal government. We're built to be a fiercely independent country and socialized medicine might as well be an attempt to migrate the country to Mars.

                  Even if the "Democratic Socialists" wing of the liberals wins both houses of congress, the White House and the SCOTUS, it still wouldn't happen. Especially not those poisonous assholes because they are about as interested in actually achieving their stated version of effective governance as those dumb fucks in MAGA hats are as interested in getting payments from Mexico for the border wall. There is a cancer in America. We are a falling empire. Both parties are fatally compromised no matter what happens next election. The same cancer that has infected the GOP has infected the American liberals in the form of the "Bernie Bro" aka the anti-intellectual socialist.

                  I have met these fucking idiots, they're every bad combination of misplaced passions and total ignorance. They don't read books. They don't know history. They do not understand basic civics. They will undermine and burn down everything they don't understand, which happens to be almost everything including their own institutions. They're the liberal version of the guys who believe GW Bush was a RINO.
                  I'm not making an argument for what you are getting at. I'm implying that relying too much on anecdotal evidence is dumb and usually unproductive.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

                    I'm not making an argument for what you are getting at. I'm implying that relying too much on anecdotal evidence is dumb and usually unproductive.
                    I know that some people come from the US into Canada and Mexico for cheaper prescriptions. How many come to Canada from the US for medical care? Surgeries?

                    How many Canadians come to the US for needed care without the waiting time seen in your country?

                    Ancedotal evidence?

                    Carter Hargrave's Jeet Can't Do

                    http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31636

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

                      I know that some people come from the US into Canada and Mexico for cheaper prescriptions. How many come to Canada from the US for medical care? Surgeries?

                      How many Canadians come to the US for needed care without the waiting time seen in your country?

                      Ancedotal evidence?
                      Since you didn't provide any further information, yes.
                      if you are asking what those numbers are, I'm not sure.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by hungryjoe View Post

                        I know that some people come from the US into Canada and Mexico for cheaper prescriptions. How many come to Canada from the US for medical care? Surgeries?

                        How many Canadians come to the US for needed care without the waiting time seen in your country?

                        Ancedotal evidence?
                        There’s a variety of numbers on that. The majority of Canadians who are treated in the US system do so because they are already there on holiday or business. Canadians who travel deliberately for healthcare outside of Canada usually don’t go to the US, they most often go to Mexico. It’s cheaper, and they can combine it with a hot holiday.

                        Comment


                          Australian Bureau of Statistics has a population clock (as at Sep 2019) that estimates 411 deaths per day in Australia, with a net population growth of 960 people per day.

                          We’ve had 67 deaths attributed to CoVid in the last few weeks.

                          Perspective in the face of hysterical news headlines like “Youngest person to die of Covid in Australia!” (a 42 year old overseas national who was a crew member of the Artania cruise ship - not a citizen or resident of the country).
                          Last edited by Lily; 4/17/2020 3:50am, . Reason: Wrong cruise ship
                          "I'm reluctant to sound like a total fa66ot as well, but my background in sculpture gave me an edge in understanding how we're expected to move thru space." - The Other Other Serge

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Lily View Post
                            Australian Bureau of Statistics has a population clock (as at Sep 2019) that estimates 411 deaths per day in Australia, with a net population growth of 960 people per day.

                            We’ve had 67 deaths attributed to CoVid in the last few weeks.

                            Perspective in the face of hysterical news headlines like “Youngest person to die of Covid in Australia!” (a 42 year old overseas national who was a crew member of the Artania cruise ship - not a citizen or resident of the country).
                            I don't think that the news is necessarily hysterical as much as it is trying to convey the seriousness of the situation to an increasing number of people who say, "Why can't we be like Sweden?". Most not realizing that that Sweden's infection rate continues to spike, their death to infection rate is abysmal(10%) and their death to recovery rate is also abysmal(3:1).

                            I'm glad you feel safe enough(and from the numbers apparently are) in Australia to complain about what your government is doing. However, maybe stop for a second and think that perhaps the reason you are so safe is because of the reactions of your government and the reporting of your media.
                            Don't rely on theory if your life is at stake.

                            "But now that you've anointed him as truthsayer, you'll be complicit with what happens when the next Jew comes here and is lambasted by an ultrasecular Rabbi" -W.Rabbit/Pship/Emily Dickinson/Earth Dragon/Self Proclaimed Editor Extraordinaire

                            Comment


                              We’ve had close to 1200 deaths so far. A typical flu season is around 1500 deaths, so we’re closing in on a year’s worth of flu deaths in a month, even with all the precautions. The government is predicting 11,000 to 22,000 deaths but hoping to beat those predictions. They say if we did nothing we’d be looking at 300,000 deaths.

                              So yeah, it’s serious, it’s not just another flu.

                              Comment


                                I am not saying that the PD are not right but I am saying things like this are extremely troubling:
                                https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/ral...GT6ouIpfGHwp_w
                                Maybe for me its the verbiage but the right to assemble and to speak are the most fundamental of our freedoms.
                                When freedoms come into direct conflict with the public good things are always troubling.
                                Always great care need to be taken to make sure that the very situational nature of what happened remains that situational.
                                Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                                George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                                Comment

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