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    #76
    Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

    Than aren’t doing basic math very well
    Huh?? If this is supposed to be a response can you please elaborate, because your response isn't basic english or at least understandable english.

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post

      Huh?? If this is supposed to be a response can you please elaborate, because your response isn't basic english or at least understandable english.
      You are probably better at English, but not math.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by goodlun View Post

        Illegal Immigrants tend to pay taxes, and a lot of tem as its risky to file for a return.
        Sales tax is a regressive tax. The poor will be hit a lot harder than the rich, you think Billionaires don't pay their fair share now? Oh boy wait till they pay even less. Most Billionaires are not spending a lot, hell some have serious liquidity issues, though not boo hoo serious. Recall Billionaires only make up 9% of GDP, and tgat is with most of their wealth tied up in assets. Who do you think is spending all the money? Its not the rich.
        I'm not sure it would make a difference, it's not like they pay taxes now. Besides we got to pay that national debt down somehow. Income tax is just a clusterfuck, there needs to be an alternative.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post

          I'm not sure it would make a difference, it's not like they pay taxes now. Besides we got to pay that national debt down somehow. Income tax is just a clusterfuck, there needs to be an alternative.
          Factually incorrect.
          Corporations tend to not pay much in taxes, Billionaires actually do pay a lot in taxes, typically in the form of capital gains(whoms tax rate is lower ~15%) but the total amount of money that Billionaries pay in taxes is actually quite high.
          You know who don't pay much in income taxes, the poor.

          In 2018, billionaires paid 23% of their income in federal, state, and local taxes, while the average American paid 28%. That's according to an analysis of tax data by the University of California at Berkeley's Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman

          Also read this:
          https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-taxes-in-2016

          They may be paying a lower % but they are paying a larger % of the tax bill than you think.
          A sales tax would be a boon for them and terrible for the country.

          The Fortune 500 Companies make up around two-thirds of the U.S. GDP. Yet pay Fortune 500 paid an effective federal tax rate of 11.3% last year.

          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
          –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

          Comment


            #80
            The top 1 percent earners paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).

            The top 20% earners pay over 85% of all income taxes.

            The bottom 50% earners only pay about 3% of all income taxes.

            The rich already pay way for than their "fair" share of taxes.

            The bottom income earners are the beneficiaries of the tax monies the rich pay in,

            do not pay their "fair" share, but they don't have a lot of money,

            and it is what it is.

            There is no shame in being poor, but it is no great honor either.

            However, placing the blame for one's poverty on others is crass,

            and acting ungrateful regarding other people who pay in much more to the system

            especially if you are the beneficiary of the roads, social programs etc

            of everyone else's contributions that exceed yours is also crass.

            Stupid fools, or blinded by their own frustrations, or simply jealous, to have drank the flavor aid to the contrary so deeply....

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post
              The top 1 percent earners paid a greater share of individual income taxes (37.3 percent) than the bottom 90 percent combined (30.5 percent).

              The top 20% earners pay over 85% of all income taxes.

              The bottom 50% earners only pay about 3% of all income taxes.

              The rich already pay way for than their "fair" share of taxes.

              The bottom income earners are the beneficiaries of the tax monies the rich pay in,

              do not pay their "fair" share, but they don't have a lot of money,

              and it is what it is.

              There is no shame in being poor, but it is no great honor either.

              However, placing the blame for one's poverty on others is crass,

              and acting ungrateful regarding other people who pay in much more to the system

              especially if you are the beneficiary of the roads, social programs etc

              of everyone else's contributions that exceed yours is also crass.

              Stupid fools, or blinded by their own frustrations, or simply jealous, to have drank the flavor aid to the contrary so deeply....
              I am a dyed in the wool capitalist however I can see the floors in some of that logic.

              The system has pushed the pendulum away from workers having sway over employers because of their value and it is now almost a competition to pay people as little as you can within the law before you simply send the jobs abroad to countries that do not have our anti slavery regulations.

              Public companies are in my humble opinion morally wrong and a good example of this because they enable a person who has done zero work to create or build something to profit from another mans labor simply because they have the wealth to buy a share in the control of that mans labor and by demanding more profit in return annually can force the stewards of the company to find ways to pay that man less or remove his employment completely with little to no recompense.

              That cultivates a system that is unfair.

              So of course Jeff Bezos and Tim Cook pay more tax than most of the people that work for them combined but that is at least in part to the fact that the majority of people that work for Amazon in the UK struggle to afford to buy a house and Apple's products are made in Chinese sweat shop suicide factories.

              In the UK when the coal mines where shut whole towns where left unemployed and once the towns became impoverished the education in those towns also suffered so a spiral downwards from formerly very hard working skilled labor to uneducated bums on welfare was created.

              The same happens when call centers are closed and shipped off to India.

              When I am Prime Minister this will not be allowed.

              If you want to save money by chopping people then you need to use some of that money to re-train , re-locate and or compensate sufficiently for them to do so themselves.

              Id expect a comprehensive plan submitted and approved prior to relocating/chopping those jobs too.

              I believe Detroit may in some ways be an example of this.


              King without a crown

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by PDA View Post

                I am a dyed in the wool capitalist however I can see the floors in some of that logic.

                The system has pushed the pendulum away from workers having sway over employers because of their value and it is now almost a competition to pay people as little as you can within the law before you simply send the jobs abroad to countries that do not have our anti slavery regulations.

                Public companies are in my humble opinion morally wrong and a good example of this because they enable a person who has done zero work to create or build something to profit from another mans labor simply because they have the wealth to buy a share in the control of that mans labor and by demanding more profit in return annually can force the stewards of the company to find ways to pay that man less or remove his employment completely with little to no recompense.

                That cultivates a system that is unfair.

                So of course Jeff Bezos and Tim Cook pay more tax than most of the people that work for them combined but that is at least in part to the fact that the majority of people that work for Amazon in the UK struggle to afford to buy a house and Apple's products are made in Chinese sweat shop suicide factories.

                In the UK when the coal mines where shut whole towns where left unemployed and once the towns became impoverished the education in those towns also suffered so a spiral downwards from formerly very hard working skilled labor to uneducated bums on welfare was created.

                The same happens when call centers are closed and shipped off to India.

                When I am Prime Minister this will not be allowed.

                If you want to save money by chopping people then you need to use some of that money to re-train , re-locate and or compensate sufficiently for them to do so themselves.

                Id expect a comprehensive plan submitted and approved prior to relocating/chopping those jobs too.

                I believe Detroit may in some ways be an example of this.

                Here is the trick, though, especially in places like the United States, and especially the United States.

                Any person may start their own business.

                Even children, those with disabilities, minorities, even convicted felons etc.

                One can start a business with minimal capital, using sweat equity, and compound the results to grow a business.

                On top of that, OPM capital in the U.S. is widely available,

                credit is relatively cheap,

                and if one cannot get credit,

                one can take on partners or sell equity or sell revenue sharing to raise capital,

                even as an individual, and yes, even as a poor individual.

                I have been self-employed in one degree or another since I was a child.

                If we wanted pizza and cheesesteak money, or anything but very cheap and/or often hand me down clothes from relatives,

                we had to get out there and shovel driveways, mow yards, sell candy at mark up, offer to help the local farmers paying farm chores etc.

                That being my situation as a child, was a wonderful preparation for being an adult,

                and as young adult, I started my own business right away, and also always had side hustles, often while holding employee jobs with other people.

                And, I have been the employer, rather than the employee for a long time.

                Even now, I am both a W-2 "full time" college professor and program director,

                and I own my business where a sizeable basket of people support their families with the monies that I pay them as their primary or sole livelihood.

                If I lost everything tomorrow, including my rolodex, I would be running side hustles immediately to build back up.

                Everybody that grew on farms or working on farms, knows the old adage, if you don't work, you don't eat, and you had better prepare your supplies and steel your person for the bad years when your entire crop or livestock get wiped out by a fungus, or rot, or blight, or, or, or.

                The universe ultimately kills all of us, and to survive in it takes hard work, and good choices.

                Even the richest man or woman is only one misstep away from being homeless, in jail, a cancer patient, or dead through accident.

                So, smoke 'em if you got 'em, pour yourself another cup of coffee, and haul your ass while you can.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by goodlun View Post

                  Factually incorrect.
                  Corporations tend to not pay much in taxes, Billionaires actually do pay a lot in taxes, typically in the form of capital gains(whoms tax rate is lower ~15%) but the total amount of money that Billionaries pay in taxes is actually quite high.
                  You know who don't pay much in income taxes, the poor.

                  In 2018, billionaires paid 23% of their income in federal, state, and local taxes, while the average American paid 28%. That's according to an analysis of tax data by the University of California at Berkeley's Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman

                  Also read this:
                  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-taxes-in-2016

                  They may be paying a lower % but they are paying a larger % of the tax bill than you think.
                  A sales tax would be a boon for them and terrible for the country.

                  The Fortune 500 Companies make up around two-thirds of the U.S. GDP. Yet pay Fortune 500 paid an effective federal tax rate of 11.3% last year.
                  They paid more than me, then, in terms of rate.
                  Falling for Judo since 1980

                  "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                  "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                  "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

                    Here is the trick, though, especially in places like the United States, and especially the United States.

                    Any person may start their own business.

                    Even children, those with disabilities, minorities, even convicted felons etc.

                    One can start a business with minimal capital, using sweat equity, and compound the results to grow a business.

                    On top of that, OPM capital in the U.S. is widely available,

                    credit is relatively cheap,

                    and if one cannot get credit,

                    one can take on partners or sell equity or sell revenue sharing to raise capital,

                    even as an individual, and yes, even as a poor individual.

                    I have been self-employed in one degree or another since I was a child.

                    If we wanted pizza and cheesesteak money, or anything but very cheap and/or often hand me down clothes from relatives,

                    we had to get out there and shovel driveways, mow yards, sell candy at mark up, offer to help the local farmers paying farm chores etc.

                    That being my situation as a child, was a wonderful preparation for being an adult,

                    and as young adult, I started my own business right away, and also always had side hustles, often while holding employee jobs with other people.

                    And, I have been the employer, rather than the employee for a long time.

                    Even now, I am both a W-2 "full time" college professor and program director,

                    and I own my business where a sizeable basket of people support their families with the monies that I pay them as their primary or sole livelihood.

                    If I lost everything tomorrow, including my rolodex, I would be running side hustles immediately to build back up.

                    Everybody that grew on farms or working on farms, knows the old adage, if you don't work, you don't eat, and you had better prepare your supplies and steel your person for the bad years when your entire crop or livestock get wiped out by a fungus, or rot, or blight, or, or, or.

                    The universe ultimately kills all of us, and to survive in it takes hard work, and good choices.

                    Even the richest man or woman is only one misstep away from being homeless, in jail, a cancer patient, or dead through accident.

                    So, smoke 'em if you got 'em, pour yourself another cup of coffee, and haul your ass while you can.
                    This sort of energy and ambition is out of place in a socialist workers paradise.
                    Falling for Judo since 1980

                    "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                    "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                    "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

                      You are probably better at English, but not math.
                      Apparently I'm also better at forming a counterpoint. All you can do is the equivalent of "nuh uh". Even if I may disagree with goodlun from time to time and occasionally trade insults with him, I at least respect him and his ability to post good arguments. Your responses are just lame.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by goodlun View Post

                        Factually incorrect.
                        Corporations tend to not pay much in taxes, Billionaires actually do pay a lot in taxes, typically in the form of capital gains(whoms tax rate is lower ~15%) but the total amount of money that Billionaries pay in taxes is actually quite high.
                        You know who don't pay much in income taxes, the poor.

                        In 2018, billionaires paid 23% of their income in federal, state, and local taxes, while the average American paid 28%. That's according to an analysis of tax data by the University of California at Berkeley's Emmanuel Saez and Gabriel Zucman

                        Also read this:
                        https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-taxes-in-2016

                        They may be paying a lower % but they are paying a larger % of the tax bill than you think.
                        A sales tax would be a boon for them and terrible for the country.

                        The Fortune 500 Companies make up around two-thirds of the U.S. GDP. Yet pay Fortune 500 paid an effective federal tax rate of 11.3% last year.
                        I will research this a bit before I respond more, but just for the sake of argument and assuming this is correct then what's your solution?? Clearly the current model is flawed so what's the solution?? I'm referring specifically to money intake rather than wasteful spending.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          3.643 trillion dollars is expected to be collected in 2020
                          Of that
                          1.8222 is from Individual Income tax
                          1.295 is from Social Security taxes
                          .256 is from Corporate Income Taxes
                          Then the rest is made up of other piddly things.

                          3.643 Trillion dollars is nothing to sneeze at.
                          assuming 340 million people:
                          That is around $10714 per every person in the US that is collected federally via the Income tax mechanism.
                          Then of course we pay all sorts of other taxes.

                          So to answer your question how much money per Person should the Federal Government have to operate?
                          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                          –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Though to be fair I did include SSI in that number I suppose it would be fairer to pull that out as it shouldn't be used for the Federal Government to operate vs pay out SSI benefits(with some administrative overhead). Not willing to do the actual calculation but that leaves around 6k per person.
                            Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                            –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post

                              Apparently I'm also better at forming a counterpoint. All you can do is the equivalent of "nuh uh". Even if I may disagree with goodlun from time to time and occasionally trade insults with him, I at least respect him and his ability to post good arguments. Your responses are just lame.
                              You think you’re as great as you like, but that fact that you can’t figure out the math on a sales tax speaks for itself.
                              Last edited by lant3rn; 2/11/2020 1:07pm, .

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                                Cross posting is against our terms of service.

                                Knock that shit off, now.
                                Shut the hell up and train.

                                Comment

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