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    #46
    Originally posted by goodlun View Post

    To wit on your point, I have literally been places where no Roman Emperor could have ever dreamed of seeing, eaten foods they didn't know about, had access to countless pieces of performing art at my beck and call that would blow their minds. I live in a place where I control the climate of, my clothes and surroundings are cleaner, my mattress more superior. My access to hot water more ready.
    Right, it is almost like schools aren't teaching critical thinking anymore in lieu of over dependence on relying on third party institutions of authority.

    Perhaps there was a consequence to teaching students with calculators and spreadsheets...

    Perhaps we lost something when we killed the home economics and shop classes.

    Despite the much greater relative wealth of every subsequent generation,

    perhaps each generation is getting a bit stupider and less able to be independent and critically think due to their greater relative wealth and privilege than the last generation.

    Comment


      #47
      Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

      Right, it is almost like schools aren't teaching critical thinking anymore in lieu of over dependence on relying on third party institutions of authority.

      Perhaps there was a consequence to teaching students with calculators and spreadsheets...

      Perhaps we lost something when we killed the home economics and shop classes.

      Despite the much greater relative wealth of every subsequent generation,

      perhaps each generation is getting a bit stupider and less able to be independent and critically think due to their greater relative wealth and privilege than the last generation.
      I think its simpler than that, instead of looking inward and being thankful for what they DO have, they are too busy looking outward at what others have. They are too worried about what is going on with other people instead of worrying about what is going on with them.
      They see people with Million Dollar cars and think that some how impacts them, even though they have a brand new Toyota that does everything they want it to do.
      They worry about people with $100,000 watches when they have a Casio that tells them the time even better.
      I could go on, but I think you of all people get the point.
      Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
      –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

      Comment


        #48
        I going choose to measure wealth by a standardized definition. Instead using this comparative rhetoric.

        It is true we live in time where what was once the extraordinary has become the ordinary, but progress is different than wealth.

        Gonzo and Goodlun are aware of what age demographic currently holds the greatest amount of wealth in the US.

        People of today have access to a variety of gadgets but real assets continue to in short supply for new generations.

        Comment


          #49
          Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
          I going choose to measure wealth by a standardized definition. Instead using this comparative rhetoric.

          It is true we live in time where what was once the extraordinary has become the ordinary, but progress is different than wealth.

          Gonzo and Goodlun are aware of what age demographic currently holds the greatest amount of wealth in the US.

          People of today have access to a variety of gadgets but real assets continue to in short supply for new generations.
          No, there is greater access to the necessities and luxuries across the board.

          But, the wealthier someone is, the less chance they lack for necessities, and more access to luxuries they have.

          But in the U.S., this generation has more access to both the necessities and to luxuries than any generation before.

          When you say "real assets" with what you really mean, you are making Goodlun's point for him.

          Comment


            #50
            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            They just don't know how to live with in their means.
            Not since credit was invented, no one does.

            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
            You would be surprised at how little money someone can live on, and still have food, shelter, hobbies, and sanity.
            No.

            Dude, I'm a Quaker.

            We are frugal by our very nature.
            '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

            My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

            Comment


              #51
              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
              People of today have access to a variety of gadgets but real assets continue to in short supply for new generations.
              Real Estate assets are in short supply, other assets are not and are on the open market largely at affordable rates. People do need to first live in their means before they can start accumulation of those assets.
              Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
              –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

              Comment


                #52
                Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

                No, there is greater access to the necessities and luxuries across the board.

                But, the wealthier someone is, the less chance they lack for necessities, and more access to luxuries they have.

                But in the U.S., this generation has more access to both the necessities and to luxuries than any generation before.

                When you say "real assets" with what you really mean, you are making Goodlun's point for him.
                What's goodlun's point exactly? the only coherent thing that comes across is that people are over leveraging themselves.

                Yes a lot are, not everyone but a lot.

                But its generally not to buy gadgets,

                but for diploma/degree, home and transportation loans. you know things are actually a real asset. Things that have become excessively expensive when compared to the increase in average wages.

                Comment


                  #53
                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  Yes a lot are, not everyone but a lot.
                  The people that are not over leveraged are in general not complaining.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  But its generally not to buy gadgets,
                  Who said anything about gadgets?
                  Buying the occasional gadget isn't likely to throw someones budget to far a field.
                  However eating out breakfast, lunch, dinner, having 10 streaming services, buying what ever impulse buy they want, and buying coffee out will do it.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  but for diploma/degree,
                  A degree cost about as much as a car. If your paying more for it, it better be for a professional degree that is worth the squeeze.
                  State and community schools are largely affordable, maybe people shouldn't rush off to private schools they can't afford to get a degree in something they can't use.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  home
                  Its kind of hard to over leverage a home, if you don't lie on the paper work, your mortgage should be around 1/3 of your gross income, a little less isn't bad.
                  In the City this can be hard but that could be because in the city is where we have seen the biggest shortages in real estate as this is where we have seen the largest amounts of population growth.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  and transportation loans.
                  Don't buy a car you can't afford, literally paid cash for my 1st 3 cars.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  you know things are actually a real asset.
                  Cars and Degrees are not Real assets, Cars are a liability, if your degree isn't paying for itself by you earning higher wages it certainly is a liability instead of an asset.

                  Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                  Things that have become excessively expensive when compared to the increase in average wages.
                  Have they really? Its not exactly what the numbers show. But people don't want to talk about average wages, they want to focus on the pitful wages and then claim everyone is doing shit.

                  Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                  –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                  Comment


                    #54
                    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                    The people that are not over leveraged are in general not complaining.


                    Who said anything about gadgets?
                    Buying the occasional gadget isn't likely to throw someones budget to far a field.
                    However eating out breakfast, lunch, dinner, having 10 streaming services, buying what ever impulse buy they want, and buying coffee out will do it.


                    A degree cost about as much as a car. If your paying more for it, it better be for a professional degree that is worth the squeeze.
                    State and community schools are largely affordable, maybe people shouldn't rush off to private schools they can't afford to get a degree in something they can't use.


                    Its kind of hard to over leverage a home, if you don't lie on the paper work, your mortgage should be around 1/3 of your gross income, a little less isn't bad.
                    In the City this can be hard but that could be because in the city is where we have seen the biggest shortages in real estate as this is where we have seen the largest amounts of population growth.


                    Don't buy a car you can't afford, literally paid cash for my 1st 3 cars.


                    Cars and Degrees are not Real assets, Cars are a liability, if your degree isn't paying for itself by you earning higher wages it certainly is a liability instead of an asset.


                    Have they really? Its not exactly what the numbers show. But people don't want to talk about average wages, they want to focus on the pitful wages and then claim everyone is doing shit.
                    Jerk off in a towel and not all over your screen.

                    A whole wall text that says absolutely nothing, that's impressive, and obviously from a bureaucrat.

                    Goodlun knows why people struggle to get ahead, they aren't as smart and hardworking as Goodlun. Revolutionary, you should write a book.

                    The bank considers my car, degree and home assets when they assess me for a loan. Not what kind of fucking phone i have or what food i eat.

                    1/3 of gross income lol, 70 % of people would never afford a home up here in my province following your ideal model. I can't wait to devolve back into a feudalism...

                    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...-years-ago.asp
                    Last edited by lant3rn; 2/09/2020 9:21pm, .

                    Comment


                      #55
                      Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                      obviously from a bureaucrat.
                      lol I am not a bureaucrat, nice try though.

                      Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                      Goodlun knows why people struggle to get ahead, they aren't as smart and hardworking as Goodlun. Revolutionary, you should write a book.
                      Its true, I was blessed with having a decent work ethic, and the ability to learn skills of value.

                      Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                      The bank considers my car, degree and home assets when they assess me for a loan. Not what kind of fucking phone i have or what food i eat.
                      You shouldn't have to go to the Bank for anything once you have a Home loan.
                      Your Degree doesn't mean shit, its what you can do with your degree, funny thing around here Banks don't care what degree you have.
                      They care about your Income to debt ratio, and your car only counts as Debt.
                      Not sure why your hung up on your phone bro?
                      The food you eats is a different discussion from assets. A point I already made.
                      The point was about Quality of life, and assets being separate to an extent.

                      Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                      1/3 of gross income lol, 70 % of people would never afford a home up in here my province following your ideal model. I can't wait to devolve back into a feudalism...
                      Then 70% of people should consider relocating. Also the 1% don't tend to own all that much in the way of residential real estate so they are not driving up that cost of living.
                      Its a shortage of housing in cities. Where a lot of people don't need to live in order to do the type of work they want or are experienced in doing.

                      Newer cars area also, more fuel efficient, longer lasting, more reliable, and over all a better bang for the $ even though they are 14% more expensive.
                      YET people should still consider largely buying USED.
                      I have bought a lot of very nice USED cars. They are a much better value than buying new.
                      I do tend to buy New now, but that is a luxury. I have coworkers that make as much as I do, that have never bought a new car. As it doesn't make much financial sense.
                      Heck just had a manager trade in his 20 year old car to finally buy himself a brand new car.
                      See that is people not living in their means.
                      No one is owed a brand new car. Especially if they are working at minimum wage.

                      Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                      –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                      Comment


                        #56
                        Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                        lol I am not a bureaucrat, nice try though.


                        Its true, I was blessed with having a decent work ethic, and the ability to learn skills of value.


                        You shouldn't have to go to the Bank for anything once you have a Home loan.
                        Your Degree doesn't mean shit, its what you can do with your degree, funny thing around here Banks don't care what degree you have.
                        They care about your Income to debt ratio, and your car only counts as Debt.
                        Not sure why your hung up on your phone bro?
                        The food you eats is a different discussion from assets. A point I already made.
                        The point was about Quality of life, and assets being separate to an extent.


                        Then 70% of people should consider relocating. Also the 1% don't tend to own all that much in the way of residential real estate so they are not driving up that cost of living.
                        Its a shortage of housing in cities. Where a lot of people don't need to live in order to do the type of work they want or are experienced in doing.


                        Newer cars area also, more fuel efficient, longer lasting, more reliable, and over all a better bang for the $ even though they are 14% more expensive.
                        YET people should still consider largely buying USED.
                        I have bought a lot of very nice USED cars. They are a much better value than buying new.
                        I do tend to buy New now, but that is a luxury. I have coworkers that make as much as I do, that have never bought a new car. As it doesn't make much financial sense.
                        Heck just had a manager trade in his 20 year old car to finally buy himself a brand new car.
                        See that is people not living in their means.
                        No one is owed a brand new car. Especially if they are working at minimum wage.
                        well the Banks in Canada considers my vehicle an asset, as well as my education; i paid for and own both of them. Seems weird a bank wouldn't consider assets like that in the accounting of deciding someones ability are able to repay a loan.

                        But, thanks for all the posts so far signalling what a prudent, responsible and intelligible person you are on the basis on your personal financial situation and management ability. again you really need a book.

                        I'm here to speak of economic realities. not making assumptions about how stupid and lazy people are; who are not as well off as you or me.

                        Comment


                          #57
                          Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                          not making assumptions about how stupid and lazy people are; who are not as well off as you or me.
                          I wouldn't assume that they are stupid or lazy, just un-educated in fiscal matters. Nor do they necessarily spend their energy in the right direction to get ahead.
                          The simple fact you think your degree or car impacts your ability to repay a loan, as opposed to your debt to income ratio is odd.
                          A car can be an asset once nothing is owed on it, but typically by that point they have depreciated so much that they are not worth talking about.
                          A house can also be a liability instead of an asset and often times when 1st purchased or during a down turn.
                          A clear indicator of how that is true, is the housing crash, where literally over a trillion dollars of "assets" became "liabilities" reversing a lot of peoples personal wealth by a lot.
                          You also seemed to miss the post where I posted this link:
                          https://www.nationmaster.com/country...rchasing-power

                          Purchasing Power is a very important economic indicator and its one that shows the US isn't doing that bad, I can't speak for Canada as I simply don't care enough to go and look.
                          Purchasing Power impacts peoples day to day lives and quality of life.
                          What me and the Dr are arguing with the "quality of food" and I guess phones? Debate.
                          People may be "struggling" but that is the human condition, people are "struggling" in relative luxury compared to any other time including what the boomers where dealing with.
                          People want to compare our current economy to what?
                          The post War boom economy when the US and even Canada where largely untouched by World Wars, and became manufacturing & bread baskets & energy production hubs of the world.
                          Of course those where feasting times for the US, because countries had to go into debt to us to buy our stuff and they had to buy our stuff because they had no where else to buy things.
                          This of course changed by the 1970s and its when we start seeing shifts into various other economic models outside of manufacturing.
                          Unfortunately one of those models was a consumer based economy and that does have issues. Unfortunately retail services don't offer up the same sort of opportunities manufacturing does.
                          However manufacturing won't save us either as its no longer that labor intensive to do.
                          Really we are at a point that largely you have to be a knowledge worker to be strongly middle class.
                          I am going to include the "trades" as knowledge workers.
                          These are the things that are driving income inequality between the middle class and lower classes itself is the extent that things can be automated.
                          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                          –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                          Comment


                            #58
                            debt to income is an important thing to consider when considering someone ability to service a debt; i don't remember where i said that wasn't a part of liability calculation. You silly man.

                            You discuss quality through subjective assumption, that's the problem i'm having.

                            thank you for the rest of the half ass history lesson.

                            At least make it honest by stating when you making half baked assumptions.

                            Comment


                              #59
                              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                              debt to income is an important thing to consider when considering someone ability to service a debt; i don't remember where i said that wasn't a part of liability calculation. You silly man.
                              Its just odd to me that your "degree" would even be a factor in this, as you can't sell your degree, and you make what you make.
                              The vast majority of loans are about where your currently at, and what your history is as opposed to what your future earnings might be.


                              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                              You discuss quality through subjective assumption, that's the problem i'm having.
                              Largely because we are talking in very general terms, where the over all trend is what matters.

                              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                              thank you for the rest of the half ass history lesson.
                              Your welcome

                              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post
                              At least make it honest by stating when you making half baked assumptions.
                              Nah its cool I don't have to admit to anything
                              Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                              –George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                              Comment


                                #60
                                '“I am no advocate of passivity,” Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. “Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.”'

                                My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

                                Comment

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