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    #31
    I think people are incorrect that socialism is a slippery slope into communism. History shows that communism doesn’t happen slowly as leftist policies are adopted; it happens via revolution, and revolutions happen when large numbers of the working class become disillusioned. Unrestrained capitalism leads to wealth funneled up- the rich get richer, the poor get poorer. So it seems to me that socialism actually prevents or slows capitalism from turning into communism, rather than accelerating it. So it’s ironic to me that the right frames the problem as “hate communism? Oppose socialist policies!” when their ideal policies of unrestrained corporations and zero social services are the fast track to revolution.

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      #32
      Originally posted by goodlun View Post
      This is a better indicator:
      https://www.nationmaster.com/country...rchasing-power
      A lot of people can live fairly well with any real wealth, yes people should be trying to develop assets, especially for sake of retirement. However "wealth" and income while related are not the same thing. Nor is quality of life reflected in wealth measurements. Income vs cost of living is a better indicator of economic quality of life and one that can lead to wealth creation. However comparing the value of someone's 401k + house to someone whom started a billion+ dollar company is always going to look stark. That is because a billion dollars is very large number.
      True, but the current level of wealth inequality means whilst a tiny proportion own 40 or 50% of everything the rest of us scrabble around for what's left

      No matter how talented or hard working we may be, most people will never advance much above the economic status that our parents enjoyed, let alone become a member of the 1%

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post

        True, but the current level of wealth inequality means whilst a tiny proportion own 40 or 50% of everything the rest of us scrabble around for what's left

        No matter how talented or hard working we may be, most people will never advance much above the economic status that our parents enjoyed, let alone become a member of the 1%
        The current generation in the U.S. is so much wealthier and with a higher real standard of living than the previous generations, it is ridiculous.

        The global economy and technology advances made their purchasing power of most consumer goods much, much higher.

        And this generation takes modern luxuries for granted that the previous generation, including the richest members, simply did not have.

        Not to mention that availability of information, free educational content, etc, etc.

        Advances in medicines, and lowered prices of over the counter medicines and prescription medicines for all but the newest developed drugs (which did not previously exist anyway) have greatly improved the health management and longevity of even the poorest populations in the U.S.

        This is the richest generation there has ever been in U.S. history, across the poorest classes, the middle class, and the richest classes.

        You're nuts.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post

          True, but the current level of wealth inequality means whilst a tiny proportion own 40 or 50% of everything the rest of us scrabble around for what's left

          No matter how talented or hard working we may be, most people will never advance much above the economic status that our parents enjoyed, let alone become a member of the 1%
          Its not 40 - 50% of Everything, its of assets, and most those assets are stocks. Wealth isn't a 0 sum game hence why GDP can grow every year. What are you crying about? What is it you want that you can not have? That your parents had?
          real Estate is the tricky thing where I live but that has more to do with supply and demand vs what people think it is.
          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
          George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

            The current generation in the U.S. is so much wealthier and with a higher real standard of living than the previous generations, it is ridiculous.

            The global economy and technology advances made their purchasing power of most consumer goods much, much higher.

            And this generation takes modern luxuries for granted that the previous generation, including the richest members, simply did not have.

            Not to mention that availability of information, free educational content, etc, etc.

            Advances in medicines, and lowered prices of over the counter medicines and prescription medicines for all but the newest developed drugs (which did not previously exist anyway) have greatly improved the health management and longevity of even the poorest populations in the U.S.

            This is the richest generation there has ever been in U.S. history, across the poorest classes, the middle class, and the richest classes.

            You're nuts.
            I agree for the most part, but you should specify that this really only applies across the board to those who are at minimum in the upper part of the poverty range. The rest still have decide who gets to eat each night, which in our advanced society shouldn't have to be a reality.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
              The rest still have decide who gets to eat each night, which in our advanced society shouldn't have to be a reality.
              Anyone that has a kitchen should not be so broke to go hungry.
              Rice, Beans, Eggs, Pasta, are cheap. Like cents a serving.
              ​​​​
              Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
              George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

              Comment


                #37
                The middle class is on decline across the wealthiest nations, including the US, and the youngest generations (Y and Z) are the worst hit, they are falling out of the middle class.

                Y Millennials in particular are still struggling from the effects of the Great Recession. They are not contributing to the economy as much as previous generations because of low income and credit issues.

                The big differentiator is education, but the other is jobs. Without entry level jobs that provide a living wage for those with little experience, you can damn well expect more reliance on need for government aid. It's hard to sell the American Dream to kids who don't see a future where they can ever afford the rent, let alone buy a home or build a family.

                http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/social-...ss_689afed1-en
                'I am no advocate of passivity, Coffin Mott said in an 1860 speech. Quakerism, as I understand it, does not mean quietism. The early Friends were agitators; disturbers of the peace; and were more obnoxious in their day to charges, which are now so freely made, than we are.'

                My Glossary: https://www.bullshido.net/forums/sho...d.php?t=129294

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by W. Rabbit View Post
                  where they can ever afford the rent
                  They just don't know how to live with in their means.
                  You would be surprised at how little money someone can live on, and still have food, shelter, hobbies, and sanity.
                  Can't afford rent, you lower your rent by having more roommates.
                  If that means literal roommates where your sharing a room than so be it, its what you do.
                  People are unwilling to suck up the pain in the short term in order to get themselves setup for the long term.
                  Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                  George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                    They just don't know how to live with in their means.
                    You would be surprised at how little money someone can live on, and still have food, shelter, hobbies, and sanity.
                    Can't afford rent, you lower your rent by having more roommates.
                    If that means literal roommates where your sharing a room than so be it, its what you do.
                    People are unwilling to suck up the pain in the short term in order to get themselves setup for the long term.
                    Life is so simple in Goodlunland, where is this magic place and what are the property taxes like?
                    Last edited by lant3rn; 2/09/2020 2:33pm, .

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post
                      No matter how talented or hard working we may be, most people will never advance much above the economic status that our parents enjoyed, let alone become a member of the 1%
                      Most people will not be in the top 1%? Really? Gosh.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

                        The current generation in the U.S. is so much wealthier and with a higher real standard of living than the previous generations, it is ridiculous.

                        The global economy and technology advances made their purchasing power of most consumer goods much, much higher.

                        And this generation takes modern luxuries for granted that the previous generation, including the richest members, simply did not have.

                        Not to mention that availability of information, free educational content, etc, etc.

                        Advances in medicines, and lowered prices of over the counter medicines and prescription medicines for all but the newest developed drugs (which did not previously exist anyway) have greatly improved the health management and longevity of even the poorest populations in the U.S.

                        This is the richest generation there has ever been in U.S. history, across the poorest classes, the middle class, and the richest classes.

                        You're nuts.
                        How are you measuring wealth in this example and standard of living?, GDP per Capita (AFI)?

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

                          Life is so simple in Goodlunland, where is this magic place and what are the property taxes like?
                          Its around 1.19%
                          The problem is Parents didn't teach their children how to be brook, most of their parents where broke when they where young.
                          They handed them everything, and didn't teach them how to deal with being bored, and uncomfortable.
                          They taught them that instant gratification is the only gratification.
                          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                          George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                          Comment


                            #43
                            12.00/hr (min wage where I live)
                            Net pay for 40/week = $413(after all the BS is taken out of your check)
                            Net Pay a month=413*52/12=$1789
                            Rent & Utlilites(Maxium Rent for 3x rule)=$700/mo, believe it or not its very possible to find rooms for rent for that here.
                            --$1089
                            Health Insurance cost(Cover Californai supsidized) $200/mo
                            --$889
                            Food $10/day x 31= $310
                            --$579
                            BJJ $90/Month
                            --$489
                            Now $489 for transportation cost, incidentals, savings, and what not isn't a lot of money, but its do able.
                            Might mean doing more ride shares(as in car pool, not uber), buying 2nd hand stuff, and being careful with your money.
                            but the argument here is for an entery level minimum wage job, you sure the heck can live on it without being miserable.
                            Hopefully be motivated to you know not stay at that income level forever.
                            Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                            George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by lant3rn View Post

                              How are you measuring wealth in this example and standard of living?, GDP per Capita (AFI)?
                              Take a human today.

                              Compare that to a human from the prior generation.

                              Does the human today have more material possessions?

                              Are there new material possessions that did not exist previously that allow the human of today to do things that the human of yesterday could not do?

                              Is the human today hungrier or less hungry than the human of yesterday?

                              Does the human of today live longer or less longer?

                              Does the human of today have access to more information or less information than the human of yesterday?

                              Is the human of today able to travel to other places more easily and more quickly and more cheaply than the human of yesterday?

                              I could go on, but you can do your own thinking, and do not need me to do that work for you.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Dr. Gonzo View Post

                                Take a human today.

                                Compare that to a human from the prior generation.

                                Does the human today have more material possessions?

                                Are there new material possessions that did not exist previously that allow the human of today to do things that the human of yesterday could not do?

                                Is the human today hungrier or less hungry than the human of yesterday?

                                Does the human of today live longer or less longer?

                                Does the human of today have access to more information or less information than the human of yesterday?

                                Is the human of today able to travel to other places more easily and more quickly and more cheaply than the human of yesterday?

                                I could go on, but you can do your own thinking, and do not need me to do that work for you.
                                To wit on your point, I have literally been places where no Roman Emperor could have ever dreamed of seeing, eaten foods they didn't know about, had access to countless pieces of performing art at my beck and call that would blow their minds. I live in a place where I control the climate of, my clothes and surroundings are cleaner, my mattress more superior. My access to hot water more ready.
                                Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                                George Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                                Comment

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