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    #16
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post

    Yeah that. A political system that is considered anthropomorphic.
    Politics, including systems have real world consequences, some of those consequences are evil.


    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Comes up with tax payer healthcare a bit. As if just saying socialism is some kind of argument.
    Who just said socialism as any sort of argument?
    I just said Communism and Socialism are not equal.
    We have plenty of employee owned businesses in the US, that is the literal definition of socialism.
    I have no issues with that. I don't think most people do.
    I think most people recognize the needs for some socialized programs

    Communism, communism is evil as fuck.

    Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
    ĖGeorge Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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      #17
      It took under ten posts for this thread to turn into a handful of smug "classical liberal" Americans yelling at a bunch of smug, neoliberal but with government healthcare Brits/Aussies. Yup. Forum discourse is still played out and shite. Someone come wake me up when something fresh happens.

      Comment


        #18


        Watch this all the way through. Y'all need context.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by goodlun View Post
          Politics, including systems have real world consequences, some of those consequences are evil.



          Who just said socialism as any sort of argument?
          I just said Communism and Socialism are not equal.
          We have plenty of employee owned businesses in the US, that is the literal definition of socialism.
          I have no issues with that. I don't think most people do.
          I think most people recognize the needs for some socialized programs

          Communism, communism is evil as fuck.
          I think evil is an intent not a consequence. Evil landslide kills a dozen puppies? I don't think it works.

          And Trump went the "because socialism" argument as an example of it being used.

          https://youtu.be/FqI_9XssxDA

          Otherwise yes. There is plenty of socialism and capitalism the produce good real world consequences.
          Whitsunday Martial Arts Airlie Beach North Queensland.
          http://www.facebook.com/#!/WhitsundayMartialArts

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            #20
            I dislike socialism because of how it seems to say "it's okay to be mediocre, just give up some control of your life . . ." I already pay obscene taxes and have good healthcare. The amount I have paid into social security alone since becoming an active member of the workforce is the difference between me getting to retire in 10-15 years in my mid 40s to early 50s vs 25-35 years that it will actually be. That stings. If I were guaranteed to actually receive social security, that might bother me less than it does.

            I think socialist-capitalist blends of government can work fairly well at lower levels in the U.S. and with smaller countries with smaller populations. I do not think this is the case with the retarded lumbering behemoth that is the United States government, nor is a population that large and socioeconomically diverse likely to use it wisely. I am excited to see if I am right or wrong with the EU slowly consolidating Europe into a single political entity.

            ‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč
            "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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              #21
              Originally posted by goodlun View Post

              I don't know what your talking about? My Health insurance is top notch and I barely give my insurance company anything, my employer on the other hand pays out something like $1500/mo for me and my family but um at least I am not paying taxes on it.
              that's fine for you whilst you are employed, but what about hard working self employed people, and the contribution is acting as payment in kind. What if your company payed you the extra $18,000 p/a and you payed the UK National Insurance rate of ; if you earn more than £166 a week. you pay 12% of your earnings above this limit and up to £962 a week (for 2019-20) the rate drops to 2% of your earnings over £962 a week. would you be better off?

              Originally posted by goodlun View Post
              In fact I can't name a god damn thing I would be better off paying for through taxes than directly. That I am not already paying for through taxes ie Roads/Police/Fire/Childhood education(I do want an educated population) truth is we don't hate socialism we have plenty of socialized programs.
              However in Europe I would easily pay 10-15k more per year in taxes that buys me a lot of a lot of things.
              Military and Veterens are another Socialised cost

              The rhetoric coming from the GOP is very anti Socialist, despite the above socialist areas of the economy

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post

                I think evil is an intent not a consequence. Evil landslide kills a dozen puppies? I don't think it works.

                And Trump went the "because socialism" argument as an example of it being used.

                https://youtu.be/FqI_9XssxDA

                Otherwise yes. There is plenty of socialism and capitalism the produce good real world consequences.
                Ok then it should be easy to post at least ONE example of communism not being evil right??

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by BKR View Post

                  How in the fuck can he post here, if you are filtering stupid?
                  I'm clearly not the only one in that particular sinking ship.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by submessenger View Post
                    We filter the memes to stop stupid. It's our new forum AI.

                    Use the bbcode img tags, as always, or you can drag/drop images into your post, or do it the hard way and use the photo icon button in the editor.
                    I can't click and drag on a phone. I did try the icon, but it wouldn't post from a link like the old style did.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
                      It took under ten posts for this thread to turn into a handful of smug "classical liberal" Americans yelling at a bunch of smug, neoliberal but with government healthcare Brits/Aussies. Yup. Forum discourse is still played out and shite. Someone come wake me up when something fresh happens.
                      The irony in your post is palpable. Good work!
                      Falling for Judo since 1980

                      "You are wrong. Why? Because you move like a pregnant yak and talk like a spazzing 'I train UFC' noob." -DCS

                      "The best part of getting you worked up is your backpack full of irony and lies." -It Is Fake

                      "Banning BKR is like kicking a Quokka. It's foolishness of the first order." - Raycetpfl

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Cassius View Post
                        I dislike socialism because of how it seems to say "it's okay to be mediocre, just give up some control of your life . . ." I already pay obscene taxes and have good healthcare. The amount I have paid into social security alone since becoming an active member of the workforce is the difference between me getting to retire in 10-15 years in my mid 40s to early 50s vs 25-35 years that it will actually be. That stings. If I were guaranteed to actually receive social security, that might bother me less than it does.

                        I think socialist-capitalist blends of government can work fairly well at lower levels in the U.S. and with smaller countries with smaller populations. I do not think this is the case with the retarded lumbering behemoth that is the United States government, nor is a population that large and socioeconomically diverse likely to use it wisely. I am excited to see if I am right or wrong with the EU slowly consolidating Europe into a single political entity.

                        ‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč
                        I disagree that Socialist systems are inherently mediocratic any more than capitalism always means the cream rises to the top. Most capitalist regimes are more akin to aristocracies in so far a s social mobility is low due to wealth being kept within a relatively few families IMO

                        i agree that a balance between capitalism and socialism is the best bet

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post
                          that's fine for you whilst you are employed, but what about hard working self employed people, and the contribution is acting as payment in kind. What if your company payed you the extra $18,000 p/a and you payed the UK National Insurance rate of ; if you earn more than £166 a week. you pay 12% of your earnings above this limit and up to £962 a week (for 2019-20) the rate drops to 2% of your earnings over £962 a week. would you be better
                          No, I would not be better off, also my wages wouldn't actually go up 18k more a year, that just isn't how it actually works out.
                          Also I have been self employed, also worked out in my favor to pick a medical plan that I liked vs cost. Turned out that I preferred no insurance at all because going to the Dr when you just pay cash actually isn't that expensive. Especially if you are healthy. Shit Costco even had generic drugs that are less than my $5 copay.
                          I am not even anti-single payer health care, I am just pointing out for me personally it would cost more and reduce the quality of my care.
                          That is part of the reason I took my job where I did they offered a good benefits package, full medical, pension, work life balance, and reasonable pay.
                          You know why they offer that is they want to attract people like me. They want to get talented people. They want quality employees that have the power to pick their employers.
                          I have been lucky/skilled/motivated enough to have jobs come to me more than me based off my CV most of my life.
                          So my view is skewed.
                          ‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč‚Äč
                          Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                          ĖGeorge Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post

                            I disagree that Socialist systems are inherently mediocratic any more than capitalism always means the cream rises to the top. Most capitalist regimes are more akin to aristocracies in so far a s social mobility is low due to wealth being kept within a relatively few families IMO

                            i agree that a balance between capitalism and socialism is the best bet
                            I guess that depends on how one measures social mobility. Or socioeconomic mobility. I've yet to see a study about that regarding Americans (not that we are a fully capitalist system) that didn't contain at least some implicit or explicit bias.

                            I didn't say I thought a balance was the best bet. I said more socialism at the Federal Level in America is not something I would prefer for specific reasons. I don't really care what Europeans choose to do with Europe as long as it works for them, but that doesn't mean it is what I want for America.
                            "No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Cassius View Post
                              I guess that depends on how one measures social mobility. Or socioeconomic mobility. I've yet to see a study about that regarding Americans (not that we are a fully capitalist system) that didn't contain at least some implicit or explicit bias.
                              The US (1% own 40% of wealth) does better than the world average (1% owns 50 % of wealth) but hardly anything to be bragging about IMO.


                              Originally posted by Cassius View Post
                              I didn't say I thought a balance was the best bet. I said more socialism at the Federal Level in America is not something I would prefer for specific reasons. I don't really care what Europeans choose to do with Europe as long as it works for them, but that doesn't mean it is what I want for America.
                              Come on dude! we gotta get unified before the alien armada get here!

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by doofaloofa View Post

                                The US (1% own 40% of wealth) does better than the world average (1% owns 50 % of wealth) but hardly anything to be bragging about IMO.




                                Come on dude! we gotta get unified before the alien armada get here!
                                This is a better indicator:
                                https://www.nationmaster.com/country...rchasing-power
                                A lot of people can live fairly well with any real wealth, yes people should be trying to develop assets, especially for sake of retirement. However "wealth" and income while related are not the same thing. Nor is quality of life reflected in wealth measurements. Income vs cost of living is a better indicator of economic quality of life and one that can lead to wealth creation. However comparing the value of someone's 401k + house to someone whom started a billion+ dollar company is always going to look stark. That is because a billion dollars is very large number.
                                Of the single rapier fight between valiant men, having both skill, he that is the best wrestler, or if neither of them can wrestle, the strongest man most commonly kills the other, or leaves him at his mercy.
                                ĖGeorge Silver, Paradoxes of Defence

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