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    Choy Lai Fut

    CHOY LAI FUT

    What exactly is this MA? And is it effective when used for self defense?


    Heretic

    #2
    Southern style. Kinda looks a bit like pigua to me. Lot's of whippy hands. Specialize in overhand 'panther' fist strikes aka 'gua choi'. They tend to face off sideways to you. Very circular. Quickly learned but IMHO not as well developed as some arts. They produce a lot of good full contact fighters.

    Historically it's an eclectic blend of 3 different styles. 2 of the founders teachers were named Choi(Choy) and Li(Lai) and the 3rd was supposed to be a monk. Fut is Cantonese for Buddah so Choi-Li-Fut.

    There's an awfull lot of Choi Li Fut in San Franscisco. I never practiced it but would run into it in S.F. constantly. I also noticed even today, in S.F. there is still a bit of the tradiotional rivalry between Choi Li Fut and Wing Chun guys. They are really contrasting styles and both come out of Hong Kong so I guess it was inevitable.

    One thing I don't like about it is it seems to have countless forms and I just don't see why you should need to learn so much damn material.

    BAH ! Puny Humans !
    Fighting evil and upholding justice in blue silk pajamas baby!
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    Bah!!! Puny Humans.


    Comment


      #3
      OMAR;

      Thank you for your feedback.

      I am looking to get back into MA. During the past weeks I have taken the time to go and observe several schools. Here are some of the ones I have observed:

      White Crane Kung Fu
      Hung Gar
      Praying Mantis
      Tai Shing Pek Kwar (Monkey Style)
      Hwa Rang Do
      Han Soo Do
      Choy Lai Fut
      Wing Chun

      From these I have narrowed them down to:

      Choy Lai Fut
      Wing Chun

      My criteria for picking a school is this:

      Sifu
      Sifu's lineage
      Class
      Class schedule
      Class size
      Distance from my house
      True "usability"

      I still have one class to go visit and this is a Xing Yi (sp?) school. I really do not know much about this either so if you can "enlighten" me that would also be great.

      I am really interested in the Wing Chun class. I have seen the students and they are quite amazing to watch.

      Omar if you happen to have any other suggestions please feel free to throw them my way.

      Heretic

      Comment


        #4
        Here's a good link I found. Check out www.buksing.com while you're searching around. They've got extensive info on their lineage and all of that.

        They teach both CLF and Wing Chun.

        Comment


          #5
          Don't totally rule out Hung Gar. It's not as flashy as CLF but it's no bs. There are some really good Hung Gar instructurs in Canada too.

          I study Choy Li Fut and I agree with Omar about the forms; It is something to consider. Then again CLF is pretty amazing to watch if you see good CLF. If I had a choice of CLF or WC I would not even hesitate to choose CLF. Mileage may vary.

          Comment


            #6
            Heretic,
            Both Wing Chun and CLF are excellent styles where practicality is concerned. Both are also learned very quickly, but the perfection process is indeed very long. They are sort of total contrasts as far as the approach to combat is concerned but both theories make very good sense. I personally practice WC and it is of paramount importance that you find a good school. This is due to the fact that the movements from both styles are easy to copy and you can only really tell the difference by feeling it for yourself. At the end of the day it all boils down to your natural inclinations. I've had experience with both styles and would be glad to tell you more. Just mail me at [email protected] if you need further information.

            Cheers!

            Comment


              #7
              CLF is a more open style with very hard hitting strikes. WC in the other hand is a closed in style with very fast strikes. Both seem to complement each other. In fights sometimes you want to strike first like in wing chun; in other fights you may see a opportunity to knock out your attacker with a single CLF swinging strike. Its pretty powerful if you know when to use it.

              "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"
              Ghost of Charles Dickens

              Comment


                #8
                To answer the question about XingYi. XingYi is one of the three sister internal martial arts. The other two are taichi and baguazhang. The main difference between XingYi and the others is that it's very linier in aproach and looks similer to wingchun. The idea behind it is to attack without retreating and to smash through the other guy. I have seen it used a couple of times and it seems like a pretty effective martial art. Worth a look in my opinion. A good website for it is http://www.emptyflower.com

                Comment


                  #9
                  Here's a good link I found. Check out www.buksing.com while you're searching around. They've got extensive info on their lineage and all of that.

                  They teach both CLF and Wing Chun.
                  This is my Si-Gungs (? - my Sifu's Sifu) school. They teach the 'Buk Sing' offshoot of CLF (northern shaolin and jow gar influences) as opposed to the 'straight' CLF you would probably find in other schools.

                  Another CLF page with some good info is http://www.floridakungfu.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Yeah . . . Definitely check out a Bagua (Pa Kua) school if there's one to be found.
                    I'd also like to hear your reasoning behind the schools you're considering.

                    One word of advice: When I was in the process of finding a school, I often asked the instructors I was visiting what they thought of some other style. If they responded by telling me that such-and-such was crap, then I dropped them from the list. If they managed to say something complimentary (even if it was qualified), I kept them in mind. The reason? The type of teacher who is open to new ideas, criticisms, etc.(i.e. the kind you want) will try to find the value in anything he or she sees.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      One thing I don't like about it is it seems to have countless forms and I just don't see why you should need to learn so much damn material.
                      I once read an article on some CLF sifu. He proudly talked about his system's 100 (it's definitely in the ballpark; if anything I believe it was larger) forms.

                      Unless they're all pretty much the same, that's just f'ing unreasonable. It's not at all clear to me how you'd ever learn anything well enough to actually use it.

                      That being said, I've heard others say CLF produces good fighters so there must be something to it.

                      As an aside, a while ago, the hung gar school went down to the choy li fut school in the international district here in Seattle and Rick Shaw theatre broke out. I'm not really sure what happened, but I believe litigation is on-going.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hey Guys;

                        I just wanted to thank you for being so informative.

                        I've narrowed my choices down to CHOY LAI FUT & WING CHUN. Both of these schools have had a good following and they seem to be the only ones that have a good lineage. The Sifu's of these particualr MA seem to take a lot of pride in teaching these classes.

                        Now I just have to reduce these choices down to one.

                        To REPULSIVE MONKEY;
                        My reasoning behind my choices.

                        I wanted to take something that is effective and that would not necessarily take me forever to Master.
                        With this being said, I just don't plan on taking something to then quit in a few years. I wanted to take something that I could stick with many years to come. Something that would also teach me something about the Chinese Spirituality for which it stems from.

                        In the past I have taken other MA's (Tae Kwon Do/Judo) and they truly bored the **** out of me. I did pretty well but it felt way too Olympic for my tastes. Besides, after having being caught up in a few bar altercations, none of these systems proved to have any "value" whatsoever for defense purposes.

                        If I am "willing" to spend over $100 per month, I am going to take something that will "possibly" come to my aid if I ever need it.

                        That's my reasoning.

                        Heretic

                        Comment


                          #13
                          "Besides, after having being caught up in a few bar altercations, none of these systems proved to have any "value" whatsoever for defense purposes."

                          I dunno about TKD, but if I am reading correctly, you are saying that JUDO is not of "any value" for self defence.

                          No offence, but that chances are that you were too shit to use it, not that JUDO techniques dont work. Throwing money at a martial art is not going to make you a good fighter..... dont talk such shit!

                          Regards,

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Kensai,

                            In reply to your

                            "No offence, but that chances are that you were too shit to use it, not that JUDO techniques dont work. Throwing money at a martial art is not going to make you a good fighter..... dont talk such shit!"


                            As you failed to read in my post I wrote that I had done pretty well in both of these arts. Something I should add is that most often when the Sensei, or Master had me sparring against a higher color belt I would usually take the points. This is something that "bugged" me with both of these arts. I feel strongly that if you are a higher belt you should always be able to win against your lower foes. What it tells me is that the teaching is not thorough and complete.

                            Again, concerning Judo and/or Tae Kwon Do. I wrote that it bored the **** out of ME. Not you or anyone else. Maybe that particular martial art works or better yet has worked for you. For me it didn't. Same thing goes with other things in life. I happen to like to drive Audi's. You on the other hand might prefer to drive Chevy's.

                            It does not mean that I was not effective when using it. While serving with the United States Marines I had the opportunity to use these arts several times to defend myself and my comrades. What I found is that Tae Kwon Do was practically useless. Yes, if used outside where there is lots of room no problem. But inside of a bar, night club when there are people all around you it just became very unpractical. The same goes with Judo. If you are able, as I was in a few confrontations, to get in close enough to your foe then its pretty easy. On several occasions some of my buddies where stunned at how easy I was able to flip some guys. Like I have said though, the problem was trying to get close. In some other fights I was able to get close to the individual and do my thing not before having received some good blows to my face. Of course by this time my adrenaline was at his max to the point that I just wanted to hurt this guy real bad.
                            But in Judo and Tae Kwon Do it is very difficult to take on more than (1) person. As a matter of fact the way that the art is thought makes it at best impossible to defend against multiple attackers.
                            This is why Bruce Lee, after 6 years of WING CHUN and many street fights, decided to take what he had been thought in WC and change it so it could better be used in real life situations. He brought in more of the boxing elements to include his famous side kick (which he invented). If you read his literature you will find that he, while taking WC, had never lost any fights. As a matter of fact his own Sifu did not truly appreciate the fact that one of his students used is art in such a demeaning way.

                            HOLY ****. I wrote a bible.

                            That's it, I am quitting now.

                            Heretic

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Kensai,

                              It looks like his Judo school was sport orinented and could very well not taught him anything he could use effectviely outside of competition. There are Judo schools like this, and there are TKD do school that teach things that can and will be effective on the street.

                              I would like to throw my 2 cents in, regarding Heretics criteria.

                              Sifu- Good number one. Probably most important. You should see him move and hear him talk. Make sure the things he says match what he does. Come in often enough to see the real him, not the sale guy front he might use to get you to sign up.

                              Sifu's lineage-Almost worthless. Anyone can make almost anything up. I won't train with a fraud I know is lying, but I won't train with someone who sucks because his instructor's intructor was Bruce Lee or whoever. Usually has no real influence on whether this particular Sifu or school is any good.

                              Class- Probaly 2nd biggest factor to consider other than Sifu. What type of people train here? Does the class look challenging? How about fun? What is the level of contact like, and am I comfortable with it?

                              Class schedule-see class

                              Class size-see class

                              True "usability"- Really determine by you first and Sifu and Class second.



                              Sifu
                              Sifu's lineage
                              Class
                              Class schedule
                              Class size
                              Distance from my house
                              True "usability"



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