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    Rise of extremism in palistine.

    Got this from another forum.

    Keep in mind, it is one sided, but has some very good points.


    www.dragonmma.ca

    http://www.realselfdefensecenter.com/

    http://z11.invisionfree.com/The_Phat...543abc&act=idx



    Because i think he's funny.

    #2
    tl;dr
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

    Comment


      #3
      A simpler explanation would be that extreme politics generate an extreme political reaction. The state of Israel is fascist, and has been reacted to with the people it's repressed supporting an ideology that opposes the existence of that state with a vehemence equal to their repression.
      He who attains his ideal by that very fact transcends it- Nietzsche

      I like my Te like I like my tea- from Fujian province and without any bullshit in it. Oh, and green. And scented with jasmine blossoms...

      Originally posted by A Better American Than You
      In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.

      Comment


        #4
        Palestinians are known as moderate Muslims
        Really?

        Considering they are moderate...they sure do blow a lot of shit up.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by BoardHitBack
          A simpler explanation would be that extreme politics generate an extreme political reaction. The state of Israel is fascist, and has been reacted to with the people it's repressed supporting an ideology that opposes the existence of that state with a vehemence equal to their repression.

          That's a wrong use of the word Fascist. If Israel were Fascist they wouldn't have over 1,000,000 Arab Israelies with citizenship and voting rights and simply kick out / expell all Palestinians from everywhere. See true Fascist's Stallin / Hitler or for a more modern example Saddam. These guys didn't have the problems Israel does because they wipped out all opposition and opposing thoughts vigourously and kept themselves in power no matter what.

          Israel is the only real democracy in the region and leadership and direction it takes swings back and forth with it elections.

          That's not to say the State of Israel hasn't done enormously stupid things and that have bitten it's own ass. But saying its Fascist is the wrong term and not applicable.

          Also in the article she talks about how suicide bombers are acting alone out of desperation, yet ignores the fact that countries like Syria, Saudi Arabia and Iran have telethons where they raise money for the families of suicide bombers.

          The idea that money and foreign influence play's a big part in disturbing the shit there is never addressed, these groups and people are not acting alone and are pawns of bigger powers like Iran who wish to keep the conflict going and destabalize the region to keep in power.

          Why do you think a Real Fascist government like Iran keeps talking shit about Israel, beacuse as long as Israel exists as public enemy number 1, then it own people will ignore the fact that the government can't keep planes flying in the air with out crashing.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Amp
            Really?

            Considering they are moderate...they sure do blow a lot of shit up.
            Read the article.
            www.dragonmma.ca

            http://www.realselfdefensecenter.com/

            http://z11.invisionfree.com/The_Phat...543abc&act=idx



            Because i think he's funny.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by GoJu - Joe
              That's a wrong use of the word Fascist. If Israel were Fascist they wouldn't have over 1,000,000 Arab Israelies with citizenship and voting rights and simply kick out / expell all Palestinians from everywhere. See true Fascist's Stallin / Hitler or for a more modern example Saddam. These guys didn't have the problems Israel does because they wipped out all opposition and opposing thoughts vigourously and kept themselves in power no matter what.
              I'm not so sure about that. They are extremely right wing politically. They have been militarily surpressing the Palistinine popluation for nearly half a century. The citizenship you speak is not of equal value to a Zionist Israeli's either- and no doubt only in place because the West that supports this puppet state would probably balk at Israel expelling a million or so people. It is not is as if those million people aren't economicaly valuable to the state- or have equal access to education, wealth or social advancement. Your example of Hitler is problematic to your argument anyhow, as he too kept the second class citizens of the Third Reich in the state. It provided him with an internal "enemy" so he could get people to unite against and worry about them and allow him greater power. Stalin wasn't dependent on the support of the West in order to survive either and was a Communist, so doesn't fit either. Israel's democracy isn't liberal in the Western sense either, given the (right wing again) theocratic influence in its politics at the electorate level is much bigger. Maybe they are elected fascists (like Hitler) but they are still fascists. I'm not one to throw that term around for no reason (like say antifa).

              Iran is no more aggressive than Israel politically, and does no more to disturb the delicate balance of the area than Israel. And which of the two is not only is prepared to use nukes but already has them as well?

              Personally I understand those telethons. Every one loses when a suicide bomber blows himself up- not just his victims. His family might not see it that way because they are indoctrined to think otherwise- they might even be happy about (sick), but the truth is they have lost a son. That is a terrible thing regardless of how it happened. And wouldn't you resist an outside invader that took over america and then repressed you and yours for 50 years, having robbed you of the most fertile land and removed your political power? Perhaps not in the same way- but you would resist, right? Or would you stand by when America and its people were shat on?

              Israel only exists as a platform for western military forces to dominate the middle east. The money we send it is largely spent on arms- that have been used to kill palestintines since we funded the Zionist invasion of Palistine after WW2. So you are right foreign money is disturbing the shit- ours as well as others.

              Hope this doesn't generate a flame war- that isn't my intent at all. I just think that Israel has been oppressing the Palestinine people since the Zionist movement moved in and started attacking and raiding local arab communities.
              He who attains his ideal by that very fact transcends it- Nietzsche

              I like my Te like I like my tea- from Fujian province and without any bullshit in it. Oh, and green. And scented with jasmine blossoms...

              Originally posted by A Better American Than You
              In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by AAAhmed46
                Read the article.
                Yeah. Thanks.

                I've read the article.

                First I've heard of any problems over in the Middle East...



                But guess what? Revolutionaries can't be moderates.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  I'm not so sure about that. They are extremely right wing politically. .
                  One major party is extremely right wing - The Likud

                  The other - Labour is a very Socialistic left leaning peacenik party.

                  Elections go back and forth between the two.

                  One of Israel's biggest problems is that it is a parliamentary based system which means that both parties have to pander to smaller off shoot parties such as the settlers and so forth to form majority governments.

                  Fascist governments do not have differing parties.

                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  They have been militarily surpressing the Palistinine popluation for nearly half a century
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  The citizenship you speak is not of equal value to a Zionist Israeli's either- and no doubt only in place because the West that supports this puppet state would probably balk at Israel expelling a million or so people. It is not is as if those million people aren't economicaly valuable to the state- or have equal access to education, wealth or social advancement.
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Your example of Hitler is problematic to your argument anyhow, as he too kept the second class citizens of the Third Reich in the state. It provided him with an internal "enemy" so he could get people to unite against and worry about them and allow him greater power.
                  If by keeping you mean shipping of to slave labour camps or out right death camps, yeah sure

                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Stalin wasn't dependent on the support of the West in order to survive either and was a Communist, so doesn't fit either. Israel's democracy isn't liberal in the Western sense either, given the (right wing again) theocratic influence in its politics at the electorate level is much bigger. Maybe they are elected fascists (like Hitler) but they are still fascists. I'm not one to throw that term around for no reason (like say antifa).
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Iran is no more aggressive than Israel politically, and does no more to disturb the delicate balance of the area than Israel. And which of the two is not only is prepared to use nukes but already has them as well?
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Personally I understand those telethons. Every one loses when a suicide bomber blows himself up- not just his victims. His family might not see it that way because they are indoctrined to think otherwise- they might even be happy about (sick), but the truth is they have lost a son.
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  That is a terrible thing regardless of how it happened. And wouldn't you resist an outside invader that took over america and then repressed you and yours for 50 years, having robbed you of the most fertile land and removed your political power? Perhaps not in the same way- but you would resist, right? Or would you stand by when America and its people were shat on?
                  If I lost my homeland and was shat on for years and nearly exterminated. I would want to get dome of it back and hopefully live in peace with my neighbours but if they kept on attacking me I would fight back. By the way that place is called Israel.



                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Israel only exists as a platform for western military forces to dominate the middle east. The money we send it is largely spent on arms- that have been used to kill palestintines since we funded the Zionist invasion of Palistine after WW2. So you are right foreign money is disturbing the shit- ours as well as others.
                  Originally posted by BoardHitBack
                  Hope this doesn't generate a flame war- that isn't my intent at all. I just think that Israel has been oppressing the Palestinine people since the Zionist movement moved in and started attacking and raiding local arab communities.
                  http://www.zionism-israel.com/Hebron_Massacre1929.htm

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Oh please, paradise now exaggerated many things.

                    It's not just by saying 'holy crap! 72 virgins' these guys do it.

                    They are very angry, and rightfully so.

                    have you ever talked with a guy from palistine?

                    And no not some retarded 20 year old but someone who is actually educated?

                    There is some harsh shit going down in palistine.


                    I do NOT believe isreal is fascist. There are many many good isreali's, infact so far when i talk online with isreali's they seem far more polite and intellegent and well mannered when compared to thier american counterparts. American jews are usually frothing from the mouth, isreali's usually seem pretty chilled out.


                    And it's true. Palistinian woman twenty years ago rarely ever wore hijab or were overtly religious. Only recently has it been happening.

                    By cutting funding, the people will suffer, not hamas. And thus, the people will grow angrier and angrier.

                    And that anger is what makes it easy to be breain washed just as the two men were in paradise now.


                    That is how it becomes easy to brainwash somone to hate.
                    Last edited by AAAhmed46; 5/01/2006 6:57pm, .
                    www.dragonmma.ca

                    http://www.realselfdefensecenter.com/

                    http://z11.invisionfree.com/The_Phat...543abc&act=idx



                    Because i think he's funny.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by AAAhmed46
                      Oh please, paradise now exaggerated many things.

                      It's not just by saying 'holy crap! 72 virgins' these guys do it.

                      They are very angry, and rightfully so.

                      have you ever talked with a guy from palistine?

                      And no not some retarded 20 year old but someone who is actually educated?

                      There is some harsh shit going down in palistine.


                      I do NOT believe isreal is fascist. There are many many good isreali's, infact so far when i talk online with isreali's they seem far more polite and intellegent and well mannered when compared to thier american counterparts. American jews are usually frothing from the mouth, isreali's usually seem pretty chilled out.


                      And it's true. Palistinian woman twenty years ago rarely ever wore hijab or were overtly religious. Only recently has it been happening.

                      By cutting funding, the people will suffer, not hamas. And thus, the people will grow angrier and angrier.

                      And that anger is what makes it easy to be breain washed just as the two men were in paradise now.


                      That is how it becomes easy to brainwash somone to hate.
                      I am not syaing that people don't have a right to be angry or that their anger and despair aren't major causes of why they blow themselves up, but that other outside groups take advantage of that anger for their own purposes and fund terrorist activities.

                      Money also plays a part in terrorisim. Part of the Muslim world's problems is that it's OK to have a telethon for raising money for the family of suicide bombers, with the recognition that by supporting this you are supporting future suicide bombings and helping to prolong the cycle.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        ******but that other outside groups take advantage of that anger for their own purposes and fund terrorist activities.*******

                        I can agree with that.
                        www.dragonmma.ca

                        http://www.realselfdefensecenter.com/

                        http://z11.invisionfree.com/The_Phat...543abc&act=idx



                        Because i think he's funny.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by GoJu - Joe
                          Fascist governments do not have differing parties.
                          Not always true. Hitler had several different parties in Germany in his first parliament. It was a fascist government.

                          I'm not talking about the Gaza strip. Every bit of land in Israel is stolen. After 2000 years of not existing, its a bit much to lay claim to a land inhabited and more to the point politically controlled by someone else. The fact remains the Zionist movement took that land and created the state of Israel by force and disenfrachised the local Arab populace.

                          If they suffer from discrimination at all there is a problem. I was obviously wrong about the extent of the discrimination.

                          Also Israeli hospitals often treat Palestinians in need of care.

                          This I didn't know at all. Thank you.

                          Originally posted by GoJu - Joe
                          If by keeping you mean shipping of to slave labour camps or out right death camps, yeah sure
                          Or just herding them into ghettos. Erecting fences and placing guards around the inhabitants live. Maintaining a military presence at all times.

                          The fact I didn't even consider this annoys me. You are of course correct. (Twice- tho the second election was rigged in that that his henchman monitered the polls and stood outside the voting booths)

                          Elements of Iran repeatedly call for Israel's destruction, just as elements of Israel are extremely vocal about their military power and willingness to use it. I thought every one of age was technically a member of the military in Israel?

                          Mossad have done some pretty fucked up shit in their time. But I concede the point.

                          Maybe my history is wrong, but hasn't Israel traditionally used pre-emptive strikes with maximum force availible in its wars bar the Yom Kippor War?
                          No. I don't think that is their primary motivation at all tho. Their shitty life probably has something to do it. Which might have something to do with the regime they live under.

                          I will. Its clear I don't know as much on this subject as I thought. Again, thank you. Is the Palestinine christian or muslim?
                          Originally posted by GoJu - Joe
                          If I lost my homeland and was shat on for years and nearly exterminated. I would want to get dome of it back and hopefully live in peace with my neighbours but if they kept on attacking me I would fight back. By the way that place is called Israel.
                          So you can understand people opposing Israel, if that's how they felt about it. I apologise for assuming you were American. It was especially foolish given I am particularly hard on people for making baseless assumptions.

                          I didn't know this. I was under the impression the British army was directly involved in training and fighting with Zionists, up to and including WW2. Thanks for the correction.

                          Originally posted by GoJu - Joe
                          The other countries that support the 1948 UN resolution were pretty much looking for a place to dump European jewish refuges and thought they would be finished off by the Arabs.
                          I'm not surprised. Anti-semitism sucks outside of Nazi germany too, but people don't like to look at their own shit.

                          I didn't know this. My related claim is taken back.

                          As I said anti-semitism sucks big donkey balls.

                          I got told.

                          EDIT: I'm glad you are still online. I wanted you to see the mea culpa parts. Anything else you know is false, knock it out the park
                          He who attains his ideal by that very fact transcends it- Nietzsche

                          I like my Te like I like my tea- from Fujian province and without any bullshit in it. Oh, and green. And scented with jasmine blossoms...

                          Originally posted by A Better American Than You
                          In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            The state of Israel is fascist
                            Wrong. It's a parliamentary democracy.

                            2000 years of not existing, its a bit much to lay claim to a land inhabited and more to the point politically controlled by someone else. The fact remains the Zionist movement took that land and created the state of Israel by force and disenfrachised the local Arab populace.
                            Wrong. Jews have maintained a constant presence in Jerusalem for all of that time. The land was politically controlled by the Ottoman Turks, which were conquered by the British, and two states were carved out - a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jews took their state, the Arabs attacked the Jews. BUt before this, Jewish Zionists BOUGHT land at exorbitant rates from absentee landlords living elsewhere in the Middle East. They bought shit land and made it vibrant. Even today, Israel is the leader and pioneer in desert irrigation. The Gaza greenhouses that were bought by Bill Gates and given to the Palestinians were looted by Palestinian terrorists that did not care for their population to have sustainable industry.

                            hasn't Israel traditionally used pre-emptive strikes with maximum force availible in its wars bar the Yom Kippor War?
                            Egypt blockaded the Straits of Tiran to Israeli commerce, which is an act of war. Israel's "pre-emptive strike" was in response to this aggressive action, not an out of the blue action.

                            ----

                            Please note I went through this thread chronologically, and didn't see your change in stance until later.

                            If you'd like a very detailed pro-Israel view on events, see this page:

                            http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...hs2/mftoc.html

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Aaahmed, I'd like to see what you consider to be the good points of this article. She says that Arafat was clean, that Barghouti couldn't possibly be a terrorist, and that Palestinians as a majority condemn suicide bombers.

                              Not to mention that she claims that religion has nothing to do with suicide bombers, and totally overlooks the reasons why historically Christian sections of the Middle East are turning Islamic.

                              Comment

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