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Boxing wins again

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    Boxing wins again

    Good article by Eddie Goldman (If you follow combat sports you should know who this guy is) on how the state of heavyweight boxing isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

    http://www.thesweetscience.com/boxin...-heavyweights/

    But it also included this choice bit on MMA...

    Of course, the reality is that what boxing produces is at most the best boxer, and not necessarily the best fighter in any style or under any rules. But the public perception has been, and even today remains to a large extent, that the heavyweight champ is the best fighter on the planet.

    Emphasis added. Is he right? Most mma striking is sloppy? that boxing is the "most effective and popular form of combat sports"?
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

    #2
    man.. thought this was in YMAS... oh well.
    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

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      #3
      Yes. Yes he is.

      Comment


        #4
        There was one fight at the UFC 55 that was just fucking horrendous and sloppy - Mario Cruz vs Keigo Kunihara. Both fighters were horrible, horrible, horrible in their boxing. I dunno, it was one of the worst things I've ever seen. The only redeeming glory of the bout was when Cruz RNC'ed his opponent, and that was it. That fight reminded me of the many vidclips on the internet of youngsters throwing haymakers.

        Really, that's how bad it was. Try to see if you can rent the DVD in Blockbusters. The boxing was God awful.

        Liberally quoting the commentators (if my memory servers me well), these were their comments:
        - No disrespect to their skills, but this is MMA
        - I would imagine they have worked on their boxing skills
        - This looks like junior boxing
        - Mario throws a punch but pulls his head, his whole body backwards as if he is afraid to get hit

        Maybe that's the type of boxing skills in MMA that Goldman is referring to...

        ... in my 100% uneducated opinion, the boxing skills on that fight sucked balls :XXpuke:
        Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

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          #5
          An excellent criticism of boxing...

          It's true that some MMA fighters get away with bad boxing because they have excellent skills in other areas, or because their technique, while apalling as pure boxing, is effective for their style of MMA (witness Ricardo Arona).

          I think most writing I've seen by boxers fails to appreciate that it's a lot easier to defend a punch when it's the only thing coming. It's far harder when you also have to worry about takedowns, kicks, knees etc. This is why I think they perceive 'weak chins'.
          Originally posted by elnyka
          There was one fight at the UFC 55 that was just fucking horrendous and sloppy - Mario Cruz vs Keigo Kunihara.
          I think Pe de Pano had been striking for about a month at that point.
          Last edited by PointyShinyBurn; 4/28/2006 7:27am, .

          Comment


            #6
            i think that most of the criticisms boxers give to MMA are irrelevant.

            the rules of other combat sports leave gaping holes you have to fill when you fight MMA. you can't really "box". you can't kickbox properly either. you can't even do proper BJJ. you have to adapt everything.

            besides, one of the interesting things about MMA is the fact that people can be exceptional in a certain ways and not so good in others, yet be relatively successful.

            and about the trash talk thing - since when did boxing not have trash talk?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by PirateJon
              most effective... form of combat sports
              most effective? in what respect? if he means under any rules - NO.

              Comment


                #8
                He thinks MMA fighters boxing is bad.... But how bad is a Boxer's kicking, wrestling, and groundfighting?

                Comment


                  #9
                  well, the clinch is actually a part of boxing. i could say that the clinch in boxing is inferior to the clinch one would see in most MMA bouts. but i'd be missing the point wouldn't i?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bud Shi Dist
                    He thinks MMA fighters boxing is bad.... But how bad is a Boxer's kicking, wrestling, and groundfighting?
                    Kinda missing the point. With all of those weapons avalible, then why do a great many MMA matches end up being two guy circling each other throwing sloppy punches?

                    For example - the TUF3 episode last night. two acomplished MMA fighters go at it and most of the match looks like "junior boxing".


                    Also -
                    Why is it easier to get to the top of MMA without being a good striker?

                    Is it due to the striking ruleset and so giving ammo to some TMA arguements about sportfighting being unrealistic?

                    Or could it be that the sport reflects that having a good grappling game *IS* more important than a good striking game and thus bjj wins again?
                    You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by PirateJon
                      Or could it be that the sport reflects that having a good grappling game *IS* more important than a good striking game and thus bjj wins again?
                      PirateJon has guard-stalled the correct into submission.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by PointyShinyBurn
                        I think Pe de Pano had been striking for about a month at that point.
                        No wonder. I hope he doesn't think his win over Mir was proof that he can take on the uber-heavies yet .ie. Sylvia, Arlovsky et al.
                        Read this for flexibility and injury prevention, this, this and this for supplementation, this on grip conditioning, and this on staph. New: On strenght standards, relationships and structural balance. Shoulder problems? Read this.

                        My crapuous vlog and my blog of training, stuff and crap. NEW: Me, Mrs. Macho and our newborn baby.

                        New To Weight Training? Get the StrongLifts 5x5 program and Rippetoe's "Starting Strength, 2nd Ed". Wanna build muscle/gain weight? Check this article. My review on Tactical Nutrition here.

                        t-nation - Dissecting the deadlift. Anatomy and Muscle Balancing Videos.

                        The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Jeff Fenech seconds that

                          triple world champ, he commentated a kick boxing night and called it 2nd rate boxing with a few kicks. Which is what it is. Boxers are far better close fighters.

                          What is the flooring of a UFC/MMA match like?

                          I remember the Gracies infamously used pillow like floors in their matches to neutralise strikers in UFC 1. Kimura stated that judo techniques that would knock a man unconcious could not work on Helio because they fought on mattresses instead of mats. Helio never bothered to do anything until they were both lying down.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by vladoshi
                            Kimura stated that judo techniques that would knock a man unconcious could not work on Helio because they fought on mattresses instead of mats. Helio never bothered to do anything until they were both lying down.
                            source please.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by vladoshi
                              triple world champ, he commentated a kick boxing night and called it 2nd rate boxing with a few kicks. Which is what it is. Boxers are far better close fighters.
                              If you're talking about FC rules (American karate derived) kickboxing you're right. They'd both get fucking ruined in Muay Thai.
                              Originally posted by vladoshi
                              I remember the Gracies infamously used pillow like floors in their matches to neutralise strikers in UFC 1.
                              Bullshit, I've got the video. How the hell does 'pillow' on the floor neutralise striking anyway?

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