Anti-Grappling Resources Webpage

[TheSparrow]

http://sparrow.the.googlepages.com/home

The site is a total mess but that's not the point. There is Anti-Grappling on there like you've never seen before. Including video clips of that infamous Victor Gutierrez tape discussed on the Anti-Grappling thread.
:wav:

I still cannot believe that people can fall for this shit. :5censored

[Kengou]

Shouldn't this be in the bullshido section?

[Kengou]

Never mind, the web site does deride anti-grappling. Pretty good site actually, since it shows horrendous anti-grappling then talks about how it will never work.

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

Sparrow, since work.(edit:sept not much is linking for me...)

In the photo section, you belittle the "single" punch to the face. I am confused as to how to take a still image of multiple punches? and it is a direct punch to the jaw joint, a very high percentage target (if you can hit it!). The elbow to the back is silly, but then it is only two beginners.

AntiGrap 1 shows falling backwards with kicks, guess ONLY bjj can do that.
AntiGrap2,3 don't work for me
AntiGrap4 has an open guard to deal with someone diving on you. Again, I guess you have to get open guard ONLY from a Brazilian.

I am not getting the videos to work, so I gotta check my mediaplayer, back for more abuse later.

[Cassius]

Well, probably only someone with a decent grappling background. He doesn't have to be a Brazilian, though.

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

But the techniques are being ridiculed, not the players backgrounds.

The guy in the first vid is a former German National Kickboxing Champ (no grappling, but experienced) the smaller guy is from Amsterdam and has tested his WT stuff in the Fighting Gyms over there (MT, ect...) . So your saying these guys couldn't have learned grappling and don't have a clue about fighting? (like me.. :) )

[Poop Loops]

Sparrow, since work.(edit:sept not much is linking for me...)

In the photo section, you belittle the "single" punch to the face. I am confused as to how to take a still image of multiple punches? and it is a direct punch to the jaw joint, a very high percentage target (if you can hit it!).

Well there you go. You answered your own question.

[Cassius]

But the techniques are being ridiculed, not the players backgrounds.

The guy in the first vid is a former German National Kickboxing Champ (no grappling, but experienced) the smaller guy is from Amsterdam and has tested his WT stuff in the Fighting Gyms over there (MT, ect...) . So your saying these guys couldn't have learned grappling and don't have a clue about fighting? (like me.. :) )

I was responding to your sarcasm that only Brazilians can do certain things, when in fact, if you replace the word "Brazilian" in your post with "good grappler," your observations become completely legit.

Watch:

AntiGrap 1 shows falling backwards with kicks, guess ONLY a good grappler can do that.
AntiGrap4 has an open guard to deal with someone diving on you. Again, I guess you have to get open guard ONLY from a good grappler.

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

So then, if they practice grappling (as in train it often), but still do WT too, by your definition, they are not good grapplers...

see, I am trying to understand what makes a good grappler? so far, doing it, doing the same stuff as BJJ, but with punches, is not enough. On this forum, it always comes back to having to train with good grapplers, which seem to only exist in BJJ, or wrestlers. How long does someone have to train with a good grappler before they can be considered good themselves, and then train other people? 2 years? 5? 10? 25?

[GoldenJonas]

did you get this one.......

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...g+tsun&pl=true

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

OK, I read sparrows view point on the link, and he assumes that these people do not practice grappling, only defenses against other people with no concept of takedowns or grappling skills. Assuming this point to be true (it isn't) then yes, WCAG is domed to failure, and these TRAINING videos are worthless crap.

but if they do practice rolling around, have competant grapplers come into seminars to show real pressure on the students, and cross train with BJJ/ Greeko etc...what then?

[Cassius]

So then, if they practice grappling (as in train it often), but still do WT too, by your definition, they are not good grapplers...

Stop putting words in my mouth. If they train GRAPPLING under a qualified GRAPPLING INSTRUCTOR, then they will be good grapplers. If they play grabass with each other under a person that has been to a few seminars, then they will not be good grapplers.

see, I am trying to understand what makes a good grappler? so far, doing it, doing the same stuff as BJJ, but with punches, is not enough. On this forum, it always comes back to having to train with good grapplers, which seem to only exist in BJJ, or wrestlers. How long does someone have to train with a good grappler before they can be considered good themselves, and then train other people? 2 years? 5? 10? 25?

You can train in BJJ, SAMBO, Judo, Submission Grappling, MMA, whatever. But you actually have to know how to grapple. To be a qualified instructor teaching class to adults on your own, 5-6 years of training is probably the bare minimum. If you just want to get "functional" with all the various positions on the ground, a year is okay, but your technique will be sloppy, so teaching it to someone else is going to be pointless.

Why does it shock you so much that to become a good grappler, you have to train with people that are good grapplers? Grappling takes a long time to become competent, and if you grapple with shitty grapplers all the time, you're going to advance at a painfully slow rate.

The "antigrappling" stuff sparrow shows on his website is bad because it is being done by people with no skill at grappling. They are trying to show techniques that they probably couldn't even apply against a resisting opponent.

[Cassius]

OK, I read sparrows view point on the link, and he assumes that these people do not practice grappling, only defenses against other people with no concept of takedowns or grappling skills. Assuming this point to be true (it isn't) then yes, WCAG is domed to failure, and these TRAINING videos are worthless crap.

but if they do practice rolling around, have competant grapplers come into seminars to show real pressure on the students, and cross train with BJJ/ Greeko etc...what then?

If they learn grappling from someone who, besides just doing wing chun, is a qualified grappling instructor, then their takedown defenses won't be as laughably bad as shown in sparrow's site.

If they actually knew their shit, they wouldn't get made fun of in the first place.

[Dr._Tzun_Tzu]

did you get this one.......

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...g+tsun&pl=true

Your link works. That is not the WT program I do, but I can comment on it.

I see a sprawl like thing, though sparrow says it doesn't exist in WCAG, and some muscle memory drills done at lite pressure. and I see alot of places a grappler would do something different.

He rolls the wrong way in the arm bar escape, and a BJJer wouldn't just sit there trying to continue the armbar that long. unless he was a newbee.

atleast he doesn't elbow the exposed spine....

(edit:I am only talking about vid 1 and 4, I cann't see much else, I do not approve of or attempt to validate the texas stuff in anyway)

[Torakaka]

you mean to say that training with kickboxers won't make them good grapplers? Shocking!