Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

They should just fire the freaking transit workers and hire new ones. (rant)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Originally posted by PirateJon
    I see what you're saying, but I don't agree so much since that places the unions at an almost impossible disadvantage. The power of status quo is with the MTA in this case. If the union can't strike, what can they do?

    Formal protest, lawsuits, petition lawmakers, lobby.
    "Quiet fool before I am kicking the butt!"
    -My three year old trash talking to me

    "Integrity can't be bought or sold---you either have it or you don't."
    -The Honky Tonk Man

    "If you can't be a shining example, at least be a dire warning."
    -My Father to me one day

    "No surprise. Until Aikido sheds its street-brawling, thuggish image, it'll never be mainstream."
    -Don Gwinn

    Comment


      #32
      I can't express how terribly sorry I am that you're inconvenienced. Slower *AND* more expensive? How do you manage?

      Read what I wrote. The rant was not directed because I had to drive to work, but because I'm not as selfish as the 30,000 assholes who have it better than millions of people who work in NY and don't get guaranteed raises, don't have pensions and don't have health care. These things are called "benefits" for a reason, they are not a right and not guaranteed. Minimum wage however is.

      "Perhaps then they should put pressure on the MTA to end the strike."

      The MTA has made attempts to AS HAVE THE NATIONAL TWU. Or maybe you missed thier little direction ordering the workers to end the strike.

      If other workers had labor unions, or people in my office, and we were required to pay higer wages, less people would have jobs. It's simple math. Simple buisness and simple economics. A boss doesn't work for the employee, the employee works for the boss. Don't like it? Start your own business, or blame god or every nation that has ever had any semblance of business. Got news for you, works that way in every country.


      "Oh well since "others" (whatever that means) don't make as much, then the solution is to lower the wages of the TWU right? I mean, if YOU don't think they're worth anything... "

      That might be your solution. I never said anything about that. Unless you think not giving guaranteed pay raises at a time when people are not getting raises is "lowering wages".


      "Luckily they have collective bargaining to make sure they get a living wage, health care, etc and don't have to depend on the whims of those with money."

      yeah, lucky they have someone who is unnessesary to make the playing field unlevel towards management and give them something that the majority of societys workers seem to do without. We have laws governing labor and conduct in the workplace that have nothing to do with unions. Once unions helped because there was no protections, now there are protections, making these unions little more than middlemen who take a cut of the action off people's salaries and creating a labor monopoly. Also as I said before, we have a minimum wage (which thier pay is above), and paid health care is and always has been a priveledge not a right in this country. This country and people are always subject to decisions by those with money. But we have laws and remedies to protect against abuses, that same law that would protect them is the law that they violate. They want it both ways.





      "And if you can't think of a need for them, then they need to STFU and take it right? Otherwise that would be inconvenient to you."

      Can YOU?
      Do I need to reiterate about how we have labor laws in this state, or should I point you to sections of Mckinneys. There might be a place for them, just as there is a place for rats in NYC. But they are far from necessary and much like the rats are present, but more like vermin.


      "More or less selfish than saying 30k people should be fired because while they risk their asses it's not as cheap or quick as it could be for you to get to work?"

      Did you even bother to read my post? I said that it is the 30,000 greedy bastards who selfishly BREAK THE LAW, and cause problems for millions of people who unlike myself can't afford it, and retail businesses who can't afford it during thier most busy season. Will these mere 30k workers support the families of the small businesses who are hurt during thier busy season which actually keeps them in business and they rely upon, or thier workers who will now be layed off? Will the transit workers open thier homes and support them. Hell no.


      "And they are risking a lot."
      So was the firehouse rapist, martha stewart, jack the ripper, the newton boys, the enron execs, the rosenbergs, the guy speeding on the highway 100 miles over the speed limit, any criminals or anyone else who broke the law.

      "No pay"

      The union has a strike fund.

      "plus 2 days docked for every day on the strike, plus threats of suing each union member personally for $25000 each day they are off the job."

      That is the LAW. I also take a risk jumping off the empire state building without a parachute, its a foolish risk but a risk nonetheless. This doesn't make them any les selfish. Deacon Jim Miller took a risk when he put a bullet through patrick floyd Garrot, that doesn't make him a hero, it makes him what he was a hitman. just like the strikers they are what they are selfish bastards who feign poverty. Why don't they just go stand in the middle of ethiopia give the same speech and cry me a river, at least I could laugh at them then rather than feel disgusted.

      "Standing up to that requires a lot of strength."

      Oh, please, Union says jump they say "how high". The union officials are the ones pushing, the workers here are like the average bush supporter in this country around the time of the last election, parroting party rhetoric.

      Comment


        #33
        "I see what you're saying, but I don't agree so much since that places the unions at an almost impossible disadvantage. The power of status quo is with the MTA in this case. If the union can't strike, what can they do?"

        The police and teachers didn't seem to have that problem. Did they strike? NO.

        The TWU rejected an offer that everyone but the union officials say is fair. Even if it isn't thats no reason to strike, thier option is to get thier ass back and negotiate. I honestly don't give a rat's ass if the deal is fair for the MTA or Fair for the TWU.

        The analysis needs to stop with this:

        Did the MTA break the law?
        NO.

        Did the TWU break the law?
        YES.

        Analysis concluded.

        Crying about having unequal bargaining power is not a reason to break the law, nor is it a reason to hold the city hostage. Thats good, if they want to take hostages and act like terrorists ship them off to guantanamo for a few days let them know what it feels to be treated like terrorists. Just 1 or 2 days should do.

        But realistically I hope the workers get fined the max and the union bankrupted (they are only 2 days away). They obviously didn't learn in 80' so they need to learn now. Let the transit worker turn around and ask himself "what did my union really do for me?, it cost me money and now I have to pay 25k out of my pocket, good job union guys, I'm really going to listen next time".

        I also wouldn't put it past bloomberg to push for arrests. Probably only go after the union heads, can't see him going after the workers.

        Oh, and piratejon, I suggest you submit that email to snopes.com to find out the validity first. I haven't read it yet, I don't have the time now, that is why I'm not responding to the contents of it, I will when I have time, most likely tomorrow.

        Most of those emails contain a LOT of bs and mumbo jumbo to hide it. But like I said I can't speak specifically about this one till I've read it.
        Last edited by Bluto Blutarsky; 12/21/2005 5:13pm, .

        Comment


          #34
          Just out of curiosity. How much do the transit workers make per year?

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Bluto Blutarsky
            The police and teachers didn't seem to have that problem. Did they strike? NO....

            Did the TWU break the law?
            YES.

            Analysis concluded.
            Bloomberg keeps mentioning that police, teachers, fire fighters worked for 3 years without contract in comparison to twu... is that a good thing that they worked 3 years without contract? No, that's actually f**ked up. Those are the people that need contract to maintain and recruit more officers, teachers, etc.

            As for striking...you know people in jobs you mentioned cannot strike...imagine if nypd or fire fighters just walk off the job. just knowing what will happen makes officers and fire fighters not walk off the job.

            On the other hand, if twu strikes there are otherways to get around if subway or bus stops running. But there are no real alternatives if officers and fire fighters walk off the job (short of calling national guard).

            As for breaking the law, yes twu broke the law but if some laws aren't broken. People of certain color would still be using different bathrooms and sitting in back of the bus.

            I feel for union but I think they made miscalulated the timing of strike. If they went on strike during mayoral campaign, you can bet your ass that Bloomberg would've stepped in and resolved the issue with quickness & everything he can do so he could get re-elected. Imagine if Bloomberg wasn't able to resolve that during campaign time...he probably wouldn't be our mayor right now.

            Unlike mta officials, politicians are hella more insecure about their jobs if event like that happens and will do everything in their collective power to fix it.... i mean who wouldn't? knowing if you couldn't fix it that you'd be fired....

            EDIT: Also if we (USA) had national health coverage plan like Europe or Canada, part of pension wouldn't be such issue with TWU imo. I mean, my parents are retired and they're biggest worry is covering their medical expenses and more & more of their pension are being spent to make up for growing medical expenses they pay...
            Last edited by babo78; 12/22/2005 8:08am, .

            Comment


              #36
              This first...

              Even if it isn't thats no reason to strike, thier option is to get thier ass back and negotiate.
              The only power a worker has is the power to control their work output. If the law says it's illegal to cease working, then that power is removed. So when you say "go back and negotiate", what do they have to negotiate with? The MTA offers X. Union says no, that's not enough. So then you want nothing to happen. The MTS could simply wait the union out.



              A boss doesn't work for the employee, the employee works for the boss. Don't like it? Start your own business, or blame god or every nation that has ever had any semblance of business. Got news for you, works that way in every country.
              Bullshit. A boss doesn't work if they have no employees. A business doesn't function without the workers. Any organisation crumbles without members. They hold the power. Don't like it? Outsource to 3rd world dictatorships where the workers don't have pesky lil things like "rights" and you can force them to work 17 hours days for pennies.


              yeah, lucky they have someone who is unnessesary to make the playing field unlevel towards management and give them something that the majority of societys workers seem to do without.
              I can't believe you just wrote "unlevel towards management". Cry me a fucking river. The entire capitalist system is biased towards those with the money, the "capital" in "capitalistic".

              And the majority of societies workers are being fucked. Go read about the working poor. Really sucks not everyone belongs to a union.

              Unless you think not giving guaranteed pay raises at a time when people are not getting raises is "lowering wages".
              Inflation does mean that anything less than a 3.5% raise equals a pay cut.

              And again with the "they have it better than X". So what? You have it better than most, you planning on taking a pay cut anytime soon? Your boss ever say "you make more than willy the janitor, you STFU about your pay and working conditions."

              The analysis needs to stop with this:
              Did the MTA break the law?
              NO.
              Did the TWU break the law?
              YES.
              Analysis concluded.
              Right. Cause we've never had unfair laws in this country. Ask any black man.

              Crying about having unequal bargaining power is not a reason to break the law, nor is it a reason to hold the city hostage.
              Hold the city hostage? Jesus, what are they - the legion of doom? How can I have any kind of discussion with you saying BS like that?



              But you know what would be great for pricks that think like you? If they did fire all of them. NYC transit would be fucked for years trying to get 30k people trained, the city and state would be fucked with the ~100k new poor people getting on unemployment and welfare and Medicaid, taxes would skyrocket with the loss of revenue from the good jobs that were wiped out and the losses from trying to find and hire new people, etc etc.

              But hey, at least the people that made it hard for you do get to work would be punished. Good job with the thinking ahead.




              Originally posted by jrkman
              Just out of curiosity. How much do the transit workers make per year?
              Why does it matter? That knowledge alone means shit. What kind of value judgement could you make with that knowledge? Do you know the NYC cost of living? The number and type of different jobs so you can determine what that average means? All that figure will do is allow you make an uninformed opinion.


              "According to most media reports, the average New York City Transit worker earns between $47,000 and $55,000 with some starting at $33k"

              That's not just token booth operators, there's mechanics, engineers, transit cops, rail inspectors, etc etc.
              You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Bluto Blutarsky
                Did the MTA break the law?
                NO.
                Good question. When you are part of making the law, of course it's kind of hard to break it.
                Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
                "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

                "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

                My Bullshido fan club threads:
                Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
                Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
                Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
                Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
                Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
                I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
                TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
                ATTN TOM KAGAN
                World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
                Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
                I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
                Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Skepti-Claus
                  This thread needs more socialist lefty hippies.
                  I'm probably as close as it comes to a socialist left hippy on this board.

                  Hearing people criticize workers for acting in their own interests in opposition to the MTA, which cooked its books last year, is amazing.

                  YOON-YUN!
                  YOON-YUN!
                  YOON-YUN!
                  The vast Universe!
                  The Way of Aiki to to become
                  The light of all mankind
                  Opening all the world

                  --O Sensei

                  :gaygay:

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by garbanzo
                    I'm probably as close as it comes to a socialist left hippy on this board.

                    Hearing people criticize workers for acting in their own interests in opposition to the MTA, which cooked its books last year, is amazing!
                    Thats not the point, not even close.

                    Unskilled workers are striking so they can continue to have new hires retire at 55 not 62. This is unreasonable. The pension plan system is also typically unavilable to the mass majority of workers who work in the private sector. MOst people have to save for their own retirement. The workers striking in this instance calls for an over hall of the current employment situation, and possibly a privitaization of that workforce.

                    You are making an argumentum ad hominem by stating since the MTA lied once, they do not have a valid point. That in itself make the argument false.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by PEtrainer
                      Thats not the point, not even close.

                      Unskilled workers are striking so they can continue to have new hires retire at 55 not 62. This is unreasonable. The pension plan system is also typically unavilable to the mass majority of workers who work in the private sector. MOst people have to save for their own retirement. The workers striking in this instance calls for an over hall of the current employment situation, and possibly a privitaization of that workforce.

                      You are making an argumentum ad hominem by stating since the MTA lied once, they do not have a valid point. That in itself make the argument false.
                      Your use of Latin is quaint but misguided. I'm attacking an insitution: the MTA. The TWU may have its problems, but so does the MTA.

                      I never said the MTA does not have a valid point. I don't know whether the MTA has a valid point or not. What is valid is a matter of negotiation and struggle.

                      I'm all for saving money. How about a 2% pay cut for MTA management to match the de facto (dig the Latin) pay cut that they are proposing for the rank and file. After all, it's our money and no one is forcing them to work for the MTA.

                      The last thing I would want is for the transit system to be privatized. I'd rather walk for a few days every 20 years than be continually gouged by a corporation that has monopoly on transita and that is required to maximize profits.
                      Last edited by garbanzo; 12/22/2005 12:59pm, .
                      The vast Universe!
                      The Way of Aiki to to become
                      The light of all mankind
                      Opening all the world

                      --O Sensei

                      :gaygay:

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by PEtrainer
                        Unskilled workers are striking so they can continue to have new hires retire at 55 not 62.
                        Quit hating because they get something you don't.

                        There's nothing wrong with this - they put money in to their pension, they get that amount back plus the interest. Don't work as long = don't contribute as much = don't get as much.

                        This is unreasonable.
                        Says you.

                        The pension plan system is also typically unavilable to the mass majority of workers who work in the private sector.
                        So? Becasue some don't have it, no one should have it? Sounds a bit like socialism to me.

                        Most people have to save for their own retirement.
                        You need to read up on what a pension is.

                        The workers striking in this instance calls for an over hall of the current employment situation, and possibly a privitaization of that workforce.
                        Ask the people in the UK how their privatisation went.
                        You can't make people smarter. You can expose them to information, but your responsibility stops there.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by PirateJon
                          Quit hating because they get something you don't.

                          There's nothing wrong with this - they put money in to their pension, they get that amount back plus the interest. Don't work as long = don't contribute as much = don't get as much.


                          Says you.

                          So? Becasue some don't have it, no one should have it? Sounds a bit like socialism to me.

                          You need to read up on what a pension is.

                          Ask the people in the UK how their privatisation went.
                          Hating? Look brother, I'm educated, make a lot more money than these people and had to work for what I got. I'm not hating anyone. People should get what they earn. These jobs were never created for people to live very well off of.

                          I know what a pension plan is. I sell them.

                          You other points suck. This isn't the UK we do things efficently here.

                          Look, you and all these other whiny, cry babies out there, quit sticking up for people who opted not to do anything productive with their lives and took jobs opening and closing doors and collecting tolls.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by PEtrainer
                            Thats not the point, not even close.

                            Unskilled workers are striking so they can continue to have new hires retire at 55 not 62. This is unreasonable. The pension plan system is also typically unavilable to the mass majority of workers who work in the private sector. MOst people have to save for their own retirement. The workers striking in this instance calls for an over hall of the current employment situation, and possibly a privitaization of that workforce.

                            You are making an argumentum ad hominem by stating since the MTA lied once, they do not have a valid point. That in itself make the argument false.

                            Because Wal-Mart provides help to many of its workers so they can apply for medicaid/medicare and SSI, the corporation classifies those workers as covered under the employee health care and retirement programs.

                            Wal-Mart is non-union.
                            Calm down, it's only ones and zeros.
                            "Your calm and professional manner of response is really draining all the fun out of this. Can you reply more like Dr. Fagbot or something? Call me some names, mention some sand in my vagina or something of the sort. You can't expect me to come up with reasonable arguments man!" -- MaverickZ

                            "Tom Kagan spins in his grave and the fucking guy isn't even dead yet." -- Snake Plissken

                            My Bullshido fan club threads:
                            Tom Kagan's a big hairy...
                            Tom Kagan can lick my BALLS
                            Tom Kagan teaches _ing __un and bigotry?
                            Tom Kagan: Serious discussion here
                            Lamokio asks the burning question is Tom Kagan a pussy or just cruising for some
                            I'm Dave the gay Kickboxer from Manchester and I have the hots for Tom Kagan
                            TOM KAGAN, OPEN ME, THE MKT ARE COMING FOR YOU ! ARE YOU MAN ENOUGH TO MEET ?
                            ATTN TOM KAGAN
                            World Dominator 'Kagan' in plot to lie about real Kung Fu and Martial Arts
                            Tom Kagan just gave me my third negative rep in a day
                            I am infatuated with Tom Kagan
                            Tom Kagan is a fat balding white guy.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Tom Kagan
                              Because Wal-Mart provides help to many of its workers so they can apply for medicaid/medicare and SSI, the corporation classifies those workers as covered under the employee health care and retirement programs.

                              Wal-Mart is non-union.
                              I don't get this argument. So what?

                              I think people need a review in basic economics.

                              -Walmart is a publicly traded company, if you have a 401k, guess what... odds are you own stock in walmart. IE you own walmart. You also own some part in gas companies, super markets etc....

                              -There is a finite amount of money. It's a zero sum game. Someone has to pay for this, you pay for it in higher taxes or higher prices in the store.

                              -Walmart consistenly shows that it is better than most retailers inculding Target in the emplyee benefits and pay scales.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by PEtrainer
                                Hating? Look brother, I'm educated, make a lot more money than these people and had to work for what I got. I'm not hating anyone. People should get what they earn. These jobs were never created for people to live very well off of.

                                I know what a pension plan is. I sell them.

                                You other points suck. This isn't the UK we do things efficently here.

                                Look, you and all these other whiny, cry babies out there, quit sticking up for people who opted not to do anything productive with their lives and took jobs opening and closing doors and collecting tolls.
                                That's two ad homini in one post.

                                As charming as the Horatio Alger story might be, the labor theory of value is an outdated Marxist idea. People often do not get what they earn. They often get that for which they bargain.
                                The vast Universe!
                                The Way of Aiki to to become
                                The light of all mankind
                                Opening all the world

                                --O Sensei

                                :gaygay:

                                Comment

                                Collapse

                                Edit this module to specify a template to display.

                                Working...
                                X