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The Current Cost of Freedom

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    The Current Cost of Freedom


    #2
    That seems rather few for war casualties, but at least that's good for the US troops - they aren't making embarrassing mistakes like in the last war how they managed to kill themselves more than the enemies managed to. BTW any one know of the British war casualties?

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      #3
      I heard the British have lost about 31. I hope all Americans appreciate their sacrifice as well.

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        #4
        Respect

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          #5
          Blue-on-blue is a lot of things, JZ, but 'embarrassing' is the least of them. Stick to topics you actually know something about.

          My prayers go out to the families. Nothing can be a comfort at a time like this, but maybe the appreciation of their countrymen will help.

          "Go cry about it Vargas. Aren't you late for your shift at McDonald's?"
          "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


          - George Plimpton
          "Shadow Box"

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            #6
            ---Blue-on-blue is a lot of things, JZ, but 'embarrassing' is the least of them. Stick to topics you actually know something about.---

            Ok may be I should have phrased it better to give those souls lost a little more dignity, but you gotta admit if you unintentionally manage to kill your own force more than the enemy could do then something is terribly wrong.

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              #7
              It's just statistics Jzen; sooner or later, as a military force obtains an overwhelming advantage over the enemy, more will die from friendly fire than from enemy. Not altogether surprising. That said, of course it sucks.

              **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
              Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

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                #8
                J Zen:

                It has less to do with dignity and more to do with knowing anything about the subject.

                There is always risk associated with military manuevers, particularly when you are operating with such diverse pieces equipment, some of which are decades old and overdue for replacement (oh, but the Defense budget was GUTTED under the last President). There is risk associated with having numerous units distributed across a country the size of California. There is risk associated in utilizing large numbers of inexperienced soldiers in warfare. There is risk associated with fatigue when units are engaged 24/7 for three weeks straight. There is just plain risk associated with utilizing live munitions, period.

                To some extent, you can attempt to mitigate the risks by utilizing safer FP procedures, sound troop movement/placement (force coordination), FOF recognition systems (IFF), precision guided munitions, GPS navigation to reduce maneuvering errors, and other preventative measures. However, you can never eliminate risk. There is danger inherent in the carrying out of certain duties, even in manuevers. When you have ~135,000 troops in the field (less than 1/4 the size of the force fielded in Desert Storm), some of which follow slightly different lines of communication and COC (i.e. allied forces), IFF compatibility issues, indigenous forces that are difficult to keep track off, and human error (such as navigation failure), friendly fire is inevitable no matter how well you domininate the battlefield and how much preventative measures you exercise.

                The battlefield superiority of U.S. and other Coalition forces is a reflection of superior offensive strategy and tactics, superior weaponry, superior C2, superior training, and superior morale. That so few fatalities were incurred by enemy fire is a credit to those men and women in the field, as well as rear echelon operations. The ratio of EF to FF losses is a red herring that has nothing to do with competency. If you were to compare friendly fire casualties in this war to prior wars, you would realize just how ignorant it is to term it as "embarrassing".

                You will be in good company with the number of people who will criticize the performance of the armed forces, despite the marked improvement over historical counterparts. Those are the same idiots that like to point at operations such as the infamous hostage extraction operation in Mogadishu DESPITE the fact that U.S. forces operating in hostile urban territory had an estimated kill ratio of 27:1 against SNA militiamen. Those are the same idiots that talk about Vietnam as if it was the military that lost, instead of the politicians. Hey, it's a free country. You have a right to voice your opinion, no matter how little knowledge is behind it.

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                  #9
                  It shouldnt be a surprise that more techinically advanced nations will alwyas have advantages over third world armies.

                  "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"
                  Ghost of Charles Dickens

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                    #10
                    Um Freddy, that's not the question.

                    **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                    Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

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                      #11
                      "The soldier, above all other people, prays for peace, for he must suffer and bear the deepest wounds and scars of war." Douglas MacArthur 1962
                      Kungfoolss, Scourge of the theory-based stylists, Most Feared man at Bullshido.com, and the Preeminent Force in the martial arts political arena

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                        #12
                        Bump
                        FrontFaceLock from ADCC: "So thats Royce's secret. Voo doo and nut shots?"

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