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    #61
    Originally posted by WalkOn
    With the female fighter it is not so. The best support she's got for fighting most likely comes from her training partners. And since there are so few serious female fighters, most of her training partners are going to be male. They'll be there to support her, help her out in training, but that's about as much as they can do. Among her own gender she's going to be a pariah, a freak. Some kind of mutant idiot that doesn't understand what's supposed to make her happy. Furthermore, to them, she's just ugly and butch and graceless. Because.
    You assume an awful lot. I think if you're stating that as fact than you probably ought to state which fighting style you're referring to. I'm not saying you're wrong generally, because I have no idea. However, I've known several female world class judoka, and that is not the case at all with them. They typically have a great deal of support and are looked up to by men and women alike for their accomplishments.

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      #62
      Originally posted by JKDChick
      Ding!

      We have a winner.

      That'd be it exactly. I don't RESENT the bimbos. I pity them. I feel contempt for them.

      "resent" implies I want to be like them and can't. And therefore is utterly wrong.

      Well, damn! All my drunken ramblings and proof to the contrary, apparently I can understand women!

      Comment


        #63
        Originally posted by lawdog
        You assume an awful lot. I think if you're stating that as fact than you probably ought to state which fighting style you're referring to. I'm not saying you're wrong generally, because I have no idea. However, I've known several female world class judoka, and that is not the case at all with them. They typically have a great deal of support and are looked up to by men and women alike for their accomplishments.
        I shouldn't assume that people consider "fighting" to mean the same thing I think it does, yeah. When I think of "fighting", I'm thinking of the more unrestricted venues of competition... more or less anything where a knockout is considered a desirable victory I suppose. That isn't a critique of Olympic judo, just that they don't occupy the same spot in my mind. I (and I think most people) consider them "clean sports", where people aren't trying to actually do physical harm each other. Again, not a judgement of quality but of their place in society.

        Edit: And, in retrospect, I probably did use a bit much of the old hyperbole.
        Last edited by WalkOn; 9/20/2005 10:34pm, .

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          #64
          Originally posted by WalkOn
          I shouldn't assume that people consider "fighting" to mean the same thing I think it does, yeah. When I think of "fighting", I'm thinking of the more unrestricted venues of competition... more or less anything where a knockout is considered a desirable victory I suppose. That isn't a critique of Olympic judo, just that they don't occupy the same spot in my mind. I (and I think most people) consider them "clean sports", where people aren't trying to actually do physical harm each other. Again, not a judgement of quality but of their place in society.

          Edit: And, in retrospect, I probably did use a bit much of the old hyperbole.
          Well regarding those sports, I really don't know what most women think, and I would never presume to. However, I doubt they are as judgmental as you make them out to be regarding female fighters.

          I can tell you that my last girlfriend was extremely classy (too much so for my taste), a typical Neiman Marcus shopping, spa type woman . She commented once about how beautiful Leila Ali was and how she wished she were as athletic as Leila. She was truly impressed with her talent and looked up to her as an athlete. She certainly didn't view her as a pariah or a "bull dyke".

          I doubt my girlfriend was that out of touch with the rest of the female population, but who knows?
          Last edited by lawdog; 9/20/2005 10:55pm, .

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            #65
            Originally posted by WalkOn
            I shouldn't assume that people consider "fighting" to mean the same thing I think it does, yeah. When I think of "fighting", I'm thinking of the more unrestricted venues of competition... more or less anything where a knockout is considered a desirable victory I suppose. That isn't a critique of Olympic judo, just that they don't occupy the same spot in my mind. I (and I think most people) consider them "clean sports", where people aren't trying to actually do physical harm each other. Again, not a judgement of quality but of their place in society.

            Edit: And, in retrospect, I probably did use a bit much of the old hyperbole.

            pretty much everyone I know is in full support of my being a boxer/kickboxer and there have been people telling me they'd like to see me in MMA as well. The same pretty much seems to be true for my female fighter friends aswell. Perhaps we find ourselves in different circles than other women, but I think female fighters tend to find themselves surrounded by those that support them as fighters.

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              #66
              Originally posted by lawdog
              Well regarding those sports, I really don't know what most women think, and I would never presume to. However, I doubt they are as judgmental as you make them out to be regarding female fighters.

              I can tell you that my last girlfriend was extremely classy (too much so for my taste), a typical Neiman Marcus shopping, spa type woman . She commented once about how beautiful Leila Ali was and how she wished she were as athletic as Leila. She was truly impressed with her talent and looked up to her as an athlete. She certainly didn't view her as a pariah or a "bull dyke".

              I doubt my girlfriend was that out of touch with the rest of the female population, but who knows?

              Feh, Laila Ali. Laila Ali can kiss my ass until she fights Ann Wolfe. I'd love to see her step in an MMA match with Erin Toughill and get submitted all over the place, it's a shame Erin's boxing game wasn't up to par when they fought. Ann will knock her out, though, if she ever gets to fight her (I'm not holdin' my breath)

              Comment


                #67
                Originally posted by lawdog
                Well regarding those sports, I really don't know what most women think, and I would never presume to. However, I doubt they are as judgmental as you make them out to be regarding female fighters.

                I can tell you that my last girlfriend was extremely classy (too much so for my taste), a typical Neiman Marcus shopping, spa type woman . She commented once about how beautiful Leila Ali was and how she wished she were as athletic as Leila. She was truly impressed with her talent and looked up to her as an athlete. She certainly didn't view her as a pariah or a "bull dyke".

                I doubt my girlfriend was that out of touch with the rest of the female population, but who knows?
                The general consensus I get from most women in regards to my training, other than those who are close friends of mine and would be happy and enthusiastic about anything I did, including getting a sex change -- so about 95% of the women I know -- breaks down approximately like this:

                1/4 utter bewilderment "What? What are you talking about? Like Karate and stuff? You WRESTLE WITH GUYS? GROSS!"

                1/4 Concerns about physical things: "Gosh, no wonder your hair looks like that" and "But how can you take care of your nails?"

                1/2 Total disinterest mixed with contempt. "No wonder you don't have a boyfriend"

                Most PEOPLE don't care, MA isn't something they have any interest in. It's just more marked with women.

                Comment


                  #68
                  Kill 'em all.

                  Comment


                    #69
                    Originally posted by lawdog
                    Well regarding those sports, I really don't know what most women think, and I would never presume to. However, I doubt they are as judgmental as you make them out to be regarding female fighters.

                    I can tell you that my last girlfriend was extremely classy (too much so for my taste), a typical Neiman Marcus shopping, spa type woman . She commented once about how beautiful Leila Ali was and how she wished she were as athletic as Leila. She was truly impressed with her talent and looked up to her as an athlete. She certainly didn't view her as a pariah or a "bull dyke".

                    I doubt my girlfriend was that out of touch with the rest of the female population, but who knows?
                    Fair enough. Maybe I'm speaking too much from my own experiences, which definitely aren't national in scope.

                    I think I also might have zeroed in a little too much on the point I was trying to make, as I tend to do.

                    Comment


                      #70
                      Originally posted by JKDChick
                      The general consensus I get from most women in regards to my training, other than those who are close friends of mine and would be happy and enthusiastic about anything I did, including getting a sex change -- so about 95% of the women I know -- breaks down approximately like this:

                      1/4 utter bewilderment "What? What are you talking about? Like Karate and stuff? You WRESTLE WITH GUYS? GROSS!"

                      1/4 Concerns about physical things: "Gosh, no wonder your hair looks like that" and "But how can you take care of your nails?"

                      1/2 Total disinterest mixed with contempt. "No wonder you don't have a boyfriend"

                      Most PEOPLE don't care, MA isn't something they have any interest in. It's just more marked with women.

                      I guess the difference is that all of my female friends I know from the gym lol

                      Comment


                        #71
                        Originally posted by GarageJudokaSS


                        All I see is in-ring ability.

                        I bet her ground game is breath taking.
                        She looks like she's been rendered. Someone ODed on the postproduction a tad, I fancy. Maybe she doesn't exist.

                        Comment


                          #72
                          Originally posted by WalkOn
                          Women get very little encouragement in life. Most of the messages they receive from society are composed of: Be Pretty, Stop Being so Selfish, You're Wrong for Feeling This Way, Smile and Ignore the Pain... etc... essentially, as a holdout from times less enlightened than our own, women are taught to be happy, pretty and useful. There is also a lot of shit that men have to put up with, but that isn't the topic of this thread. I state that just to clarify that this is not an emotional, self-loathing diatribe but a plain ol' observation, grounded in logic.

                          So anyways, my point is this: most female fighters get about ZERO encouragement or support....
                          Although I agree with everything you wrote in this post, I'm seeing you in my mind's eye, sitting in a chair, doing macrame, and wearing open-toed sandals.

                          Am I right?

                          Comment


                            #73
                            Originally posted by BenwaMandelbrot
                            She looks like she's been rendered. Someone ODed on the postproduction a tad, I fancy. Maybe she doesn't exist.
                            She's real, her name is Amber Miller.

                            Comment


                              #74
                              Originally posted by JKDChick
                              Ding!

                              We have a winner.

                              That'd be it exactly. I don't RESENT the bimbos. I pity them. I feel contempt for them.

                              "resent" implies I want to be like them and can't. And therefore is utterly wrong.
                              I sure they feel the same for you. Which is sad for both you and them.

                              Comment


                                #75
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                Full Circle, You're fairly mentally ill, aren't you?
                                Probably.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                Uh ... no. No, the elephant isn't pink. Your opening statment is false. The opposite of a female dancer is a male dancer. The opposite of a male fighter is a female fighter.
                                I wasn't clear. I meant the opposite of the whole statement not part of it. The classic stereotype opposite of a "masculine" female is an "effeminate" male.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                When did I say dancing wasn't a skill? I was talking about RING GIRLS -- the ones who do nothing more but prance around in a circle in high heels holding up a card. The same could be accomplished by a Retriever with a head piece. There is no skill involved. If the chicks were dancing, I'd have some respect for'em. Dancing's HARD.
                                So staying slim and toned. Are you saying you have respect for people that can openly display to you their prowess? Pretty demanding aren't you?
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                Actually, since we don't have thought police yet, we just call them "people". Then when they commit a crime, we call them criminals. Until then, we can't read their minds.
                                Fair enough.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                Well, other than the fact I made no statements about my "strength" so your comment is meaningless.
                                You didn't use that word no. I tend to take the phrase "DESTROY they only valuable thing about them" to be agressive in nature though.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                JKDChick think you are moron.
                                I'd probably agree with that.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                P.S. Anyone who uses phrases like "Projection of violence" and "Empower yourself" is going to have to work long and hard to convince me they aren't a worthless tit.
                                It's on the top on my todo list.
                                Originally posted by JKDChick
                                But since I have very little patience with about 90% of the women I meet, I'm going to have to assume the percentage hold true for the ring girls too. I hope my knee-jerk reaction IS wrong, actually. Someone who did ring girl stuff and was also like a veteranarian or something would be cool to talk too.
                                Okay. I think that last statement closes things quite nicely.

                                Actually reading this back does make me seem like a rather preaching dick. No offense intended - apologies for that.
                                Last edited by Full Circle; 9/21/2005 3:12am, .

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