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    Has China already defeated the US?

    There have been a few good threads in the past regarding our relationship, or more specifically future relationship, with our largest "strategic competitor". This piece by Craig Roberts places an interesting spin on the discussion....



    AMERICA SURRENDERED, DO YOU SPEAK CHINESE?

    Craig Roberts June 22, 2005 NewsWithViews.com

    Sun Tzu, the ancient Chinese military philosopher who is oft quoted in our military institutions, wrote "One who is not acquainted with the designs of his neighbors should not enter into alliances with them."

    This quote surfaced in my consciousness as I walked the aisles of a new Dollar-type store yesterday, picking up items and turning them over to see where they were made. I counted 20 items, of which 19 were made in "China," and one in Pakistan. As a WWII baby boomer who grew up during the 50s and 60s, I could not help but shudder in the fact that I was holding items that were made by an avowed enemy, one that along with the former Soviet Union, forced me and my classmates in elementary school and junior high school to practice "Duck and Cover" and quick response to air raid sirens. In those post-war days we had a Civil Defense organization, were encouraged to prepare for a nuclear strike, build fallout shelters, and be ready in case Russia, China, or even Castro came over the horizon. Those days have faded away, but living through the Cold War and the ever-present threat of "the bomb" will remain with us forever.

    Now there is no Civil Defense Corps, the fallout shelters are empty or used for storage, and we are told that the Soviet Union has collapsed, and the Red China is now our trading partner (and Taiwan never mentioned), and the only Barbarians at the Gate are North Korea and certain countries in the Middle East that support terrorist organizations.

    However, as a student of history, and a former intelligence analyst, I see another world growing up around us. One the media ignores, the politicians refuse to recognize, and one of which the American people remain ignorant. It is a world in which we are surrounded, being infiltrated, and readied for invasion.

    To understand what his happening today, one must understand certain military tenets of warfare. These include:

    Infiltrate the enemy country with advance forces and spies.
    Pre-position supplies close to the anticipated battleground.
    Destroy the enemy's will to resist.
    Destroy the enemy population's morals and morale.
    Sew confusion among the enemy population.
    Cut lines of communication.
    Create diversions.
    Control all information and media outlets.
    Attack on many fronts.
    Destroy the enemy's capability to wage war.
    Reduce or destroy enemy's military bases.
    Strike only when ready and when enemy is at his weakest.
    In the intelligence world, what we do is take pieces of information, like pieces of a puzzle, and "put them on the wall and see what picture develops." Lord Wellington of Waterloo once said "I've spent my entire military career wondering what the chap on the other side of the hill was doing." In intelligence circles, information gathering is chief among tasks, followed by "okay, what are they up to?"

    Let us examine some current "intelligence indicators" and see what picture forms.

    Over the last few decades, ever since Nixon went to China in 1972 to open trade relations, we have seen the Communist Chinese grow from a third-rate military force whose strength lay only in numbers to a very modern and well-equipped force ready to do battle on a global scale. Unlike Russia, the Chinese have done this very quietly, trying not to draw attention to their efforts, and with one goal in mind: destroy the United States and any allies. And we have helped them toward that goal. In fact, we continue to help them every day when we buy Chinese-made products. But beyond that, let's examine events that have strengthened China's military endeavors while weakening ours:

    Carter gave away the Panama Canal, and now China operates it-and has total control of who uses it, what ships come and go, and who disembarks from those ships in Panama (such as Chinese males of military age that disappear into the hinterlands and later surface in Mexico close to our southern border).

    Bill Clinton gave China "most favored nation" trading status, opening our market to cheap slave-labor-made goods, which also destroyed many US companies and costing us jobs by underselling the market with cheap products. At the same time we turned our back on long-time ally, Nationalist China. All of this to "appease" the Red Chinese.

    Under the Clinton administration, Loral and Hughes were allowed to sell China missile technology and guidance systems for "communications satellites." Within months we were told that China now bragged about being able to deliver a nuclear warhead to Los Angeles.

    Also under the Clinton watch, Chinese spies were discovered at Los Alamos and in other places, some of which stole nuclear secrets for the People's Liberation Army. ("All warfare is based on deception. There is no place where espionage is not used. Offer the enemy bait to lure him" -- Sun Tzu)

    While all of this was happening, our southern border was being invaded by illegal aliens to the point that besides Mexicans, we have many reports of Asians, Central Americans, and Middle-easterners coming unhindered into the U.S.

    Click here: W O R L D T H R E A T S - The Overlooked Catastrophe Coming From the South:

    Couple this with COSCO, the China Ocean Shipping Company, which is the Merchant Marine arm of the Chinese Navy, taking over not only the Panama Canal, but establishing a huge transshipment center in Freeport, Bahamas, just off the Florida coast. This huge complex contains some of the biggest cranes in the world, plus hundreds upon hundreds of Sealift containers the size of semi-trucks being stored there. When I see this I can't help but think of Diego Garcia, our forward deployment base in the Pacific.

    It is well known in the military that the easiest thing to move is troops. The hardest to move is material. You can order troops to march onto a ship or airplane, but it takes forklifts, cranes and manpower to move supplies. By forward deploying your logistics you are already half a battle ahead.

    And Freeport is not the only suspect position for Chinese pre-deployment stocks. Reports have surfaced about COSCO ships unloading in Mexico and Canada, plus several ports inside the US itself. A few years back we read of a shipment in a Sealift container that came into Long Beach, California, loaded with automatic AK-47s, machine guns, grenades and explosives. We were told it was intercepted, and that it was probably being smuggled in to street gangs. We may never know of how many other shipments went undetected, and are still being smuggled in and pre-positioned. And not for street gangs!

    Add to all this the fact that our own troops have been over-extended, our military suffering a continuing "build down" by base closings, reducing the numbers of aircraft in our squadrons and ships in our fleets, and reduction of war stocks by expenditure without restocking, plus using up our reserves and national guard forces in extended overseas missions, and we have the recipe for disaster. In other words, there ain't no one home watching the chickens, and the wolf is prowling the broken fence line.

    There are those who say that China is being influenced by prosperity, and that they are reaping the rewards of capitalism, and because of this have no reason to use military might to forward Mao's version of Communism. These pie-in-the-sky wishers do not understand the Chinese. What we are really doing is financing their military buildups, technology, and monetary base. Those who have forgotten history need to be reminded that we did the same thing in the 1930s when we sold scrap metal to Japan, only to reap the whirlwind when they used our metal in the ships and planes and bombs that attacked Pearl Harbor. Hitler's Germany also prospered from "free trade" by using our technology in the petroleum industry to manufacture fuels and lubricants by synthetic means. Still, we continue to feed the Chinese dragon and think nothing of where our money goes when we buy those items "Made in China."

    While we are looking at the pieces of the puzzle, we also need to add the other pieces that match the tenets of war. Sun Tzu wrote that "Appraise war in terms of the fundamental factors. The first of these factors is moral influence", and also "When a leader is morally weak and his discipline not strict, when there are no consistent rules...Neighboring rulers will take advantage of this."

    We can see the moral decay of this country over the last thirty years all around us. The types of TV programs, the language on radio talk shows, the "gay pride" marches in major cities, the loss of morals in our schools, attacks on Christianity, legal abortion-on-demand, laws that are totally contrary to what our founding fathers envisioned, courts that punish the victims more than the offenders, activist judges that legislate from the bench, removing mentions of God or the Ten Commandments from prayer and public property and public events, the bogus "war on drugs" that is actually putting more drugs on the street, church leaders that are afraid to preach anything that might offend someone, and on and on.

    An unjust and un-moral society is one doomed to extinction. Our founding fathers knew this. History verifies it. And the Chinese study it.

    While China is ready to move on Taiwan at any time-they've positioned huge amphibious forces near the Straights of Formosa-and North Korea is ready to move south, the possibility also exists that an entirely different scenario will develop.

    In this scenario, the forces that now surround us "come to our rescue."

    Picture this: our military, as strapped as it is, is in Iraq, Afghanistan, and maybe in the near future, Iran. We still have troops in South Korea, Germany and other places. Our national guard and reserves have been deployed overseas. Our law enforcement personnel are stretched thin. And then a major terrorist event-or a series of them-occurs. This event could be detonation of mini-nukes in major cities, release of a biological weapon starting a pandemic, or some other major media event-type attack.

    Who do you call for help? Ghostbusters?

    The plan is to call upon the UN to provide military, humanitarian and law enforcement relief. The only army big enough to handle a country of this size, with the means to move the personnel, is Red China (backed by Russia and the former Warsaw Pact states that we have been training for such an event at Fort Polk, Louisiana under Operation Cooperative Nugget).

    Seem far-fetched? Then know this: a few years ago I had a nephew who attended the Command and Staff College at Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. When his class graduated, a general from the Pentagon flew in to give the graduation speech. When he was introduced, it was mentioned that he was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations-whose mission in life is to develop a one world government (the New World Order) and who were the founders of the United Nations. This particular general stated in his speech that (paraphrasing)"due to the build down or our armed forces, should we be deployed or committed on two or more fronts in the future and a major emergency occurs here, we will be forced to call upon foreign assets to police our streets."

    Foreign assets? Who could that be?

    Sun Tzu also said that "To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence." With no guarded borders, and no one to guard them, and an avowed enemy who tells its military daily that "our main enemy is America," I would have to submit that this country is set up for a major fall, and very soon.

    The good news is this: The Second Amendment. The Chinese military is very frustrated in the fact that their liberal socialist lackeys in Washington have not been able to totally disarm the American people-yet. They have, by means of Fabian Socialism (creeping) legislation, reduced our firepower by outlawing "types" of firearms-specifically those that have military applications-but have not been able to register for confiscation all the guns in the country like they have in Australia, the UK and Canada. China well knows after its failed expeditions into Vietnam and India that fighting an armed population or a guerrilla type war is not winnable unless you first have the hearts and minds-and cooperation--of the population.

    We also have another advantage, one not spoken off but still resident: Our combat veterans. The United States has the largest pool of combat veterans in our population of any country in the world. From our Vietnam generation (who is now in their 40s and 50s and beyond) to our Desert Storm, Somalia, and current Afghanistan and Iraq vets who are no longer serving, we have a cadre base of "trainers and leaders" second to none. When one factors this in, we have to consider that China may wait a few years for more of us to die off. But they won't wait forever. We are a weakened giant, one that has be subverted from within and without, and one considered ripe for the picking. They have to reduce our will to resist, plus our means of resisting before they can hope to "patrol our streets."

    While the Chinese currently are reacting to Sun Tzu's axiom "Nothing is more difficult than the art of maneuvering for advantageous positions," I would offer another "old saying," this one derived from India: "Beware he who rides the tiger, lest he end up inside."

    Still, we are at a very dangerous juncture. We are weakened, we have been subverted, and we are surrounded. And every time we buy something made in China, we are helping the enemy.

    As the Samurai would say, often as a curse, "we are living in interesting times."

    (To view a Powerpoint presentation on this topic, go to Craig Roberts' website, www.riflewarrior.com, scroll down to "articles" and select "We Are Surrounded.")

    (c) 2005 Craig Roberts - All Rights Reserved

    Order Craig Robert's book: The Medusa File

    #2
    Japanese did it before, why not China?

    Comment


      #3
      We can see the moral decay of this country over the last thirty years all around us. The types of TV programs, the language on radio talk shows, the "gay pride" marches in major cities, the loss of morals in our schools, attacks on Christianity, legal abortion-on-demand, laws that are totally contrary to what our founding fathers envisioned, courts that punish the victims more than the offenders, activist judges that legislate from the bench, removing mentions of God or the Ten Commandments from prayer and public property and public events, the bogus "war on drugs" that is actually putting more drugs on the street, church leaders that are afraid to preach anything that might offend someone, and on and on.

      An unjust and un-moral society is one doomed to extinction. Our founding fathers knew this. History verifies it. And the Chinese study it.
      *Cue Looney Toons theme* :knob:

      Comment


        #4
        Theres like 50 Wal Marts in China employing 25,000 people creating a new middle class there.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by antman
          Theres like 50 Wal Marts in China employing 25,000 people creating a new middle class there.

          Wal Mart is the anti-christ.
          Employing 25000 people in China is like employing 25 in the States.
          No Biggie.

          Comment


            #6
            ... what the...?

            Dude, you seriously believe that China is smuggling weapons into the United States along with spies (because all Chinese men of military age are clearly spies?) in order to make some sort of dastardly terrorist attack which would trigger us having to ask the UN for help? Are you NUTS?

            Did you even do any background research into the Wen Ho Lee case, before blithely saying that "Chinese spies" had been found at Los Alamos? Was Wen Ho Lee convicted of espionage? No, he was not. Was there ever any evidence that he was a spy for the Communist Chinese? No, there was not.

            Have you read anything about the state of the Chinese military? The lesson the Chinese learned from their incursion into China and Vietnam was not that you needed the hearts and minds in order to successfully invade a country, but that their current military model was flawed, and it was no longer possible to rely on large masses of infantry to win the day. The lesson they learned was that they needed combined arms forces and a professional military, and could no longer rely on poorly trained guerillas.

            Do you know how small the Chinese Navy is today? The Japanese Navy, back in 1941, was one of the larger navies in the world. The Chinese Navy today is not yet a bluewater force. Even IF the posession of a large merchant marine were indicative of some sort of clever, sneaky plan to land troops, building a lot of troopships with NO WAY TO PROTECT THEM as they crossed the Pacific and then ... apparently transit to the Bahamas (why? How does that make ANY sense?) is a pretty obvious way to lose the war. (Read Mahan!) And how to facilities to unload heavy equipment in the Bahama ISLANDS help Chinese tanks roll through the MAINLAND? China can't even invade TAIWAN right now, you realize? And Taiwan is a lot closer.

            The Chinese military is currently developing into a global force, this is true. But it is NOT YET.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by BatRonin
              Wal Mart is the anti-christ.
              Employing 25000 people in China is like employing 25 in the States.
              No Biggie.
              The 25000 wallmart employes in China can buy homes. Its hard to find a non management person in the states that can do that.

              True very True, they are the anti-christ, I'm just talking about penetrating the market. I'm disillisusioned (Spelling?) by Multinationals anyway. China will potentially ahve us bet unless oil truns out then we are both F'd.

              Comment


                #8
                OH NO, THE GAY PRIDE MOVEMENT WILL LET CHINA INVADE AND WIN!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Wasn't queen Hillary a board member of Wal-Mart?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    It was actually a fairly good arguement and convincingly scarey.

                    Until...

                    It got the part where the right wing, Christian, anti-gay, liberal hating agenda peeked in and pointed the finger.

                    And this problem with the whole thesis is...why? Why would China attack the US? It could mean MAD, but at the very least they would be crippled perhaps beyond recovery, factor in our allies and the backlash for such an invasion makes the invasion itself unfeasible.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      It seem wars with armed confonatations these days are only for large countries invading smaller countries other thant like India/Pakistan and a few others but Large scale will be economic, or otherwise. Either way the people lose, companies prosper

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I absolutely see a super-power face-off coming with China. I think this is a very real reason we are in Iraq - to establish regional strategic dominance before the Chinese get too thirsty for oil.

                        I am not looking forward to a new cold war. I feel like the fallout from the last one has come close to ruining our country.

                        The general trend of setting up a secretive power base (a shadow governemnt for you conspiracy fans) has created a governing structure removed from public oversight. This structure is unrepentantly tied to corporate interests that profit from war, and has perpetuted the steady decline of our constitutional rights.

                        "Beware the military-induustrial complex" - Ike

                        This same complex has started a number of morally dubious wars, mostly for the benefit of said corporate interests. This has totally destroyed any sense of political unity in this country, and convinced much of the world that we are total hypocrites when it comes to human rights, democracy, etc.

                        This same complex has outsourced our manufacturing - this in turn has begun to gut the blue-collar middle class. This same complex has exhuasted our domestic resources, while China is just beginning to really develop theirs. The net result will soon be the US with a powerful military and a second rate and declining economy, and China with a first rate and rapidly growing economy. History shows who comes out on top in that showdown.

                        I'm not predicting actual war, although that is quite possible when oil runs dry. More likely, we will simply see ourselves be culturally eclipsed by a more vital nation.

                        Oh and one other thing: our schools suck and the next generation of americans are being raised to be ignorant, whiney, lazy, uneducated, and thoroughly entitled. In other words, we're screwed.
                        Last edited by Zendetta; 6/24/2005 12:47pm, .

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Zendetta
                          I absolutely see a super-power face-off coming with China. I think this is a very real reason we are in Iraq - to establish regional strategic dominance before the Chinese get too thirsty for oil.

                          I am not looking forward to a new cold war. I feel like the fallout from the last one has come close to ruining our country.

                          The general trend of setting up a secretive power base (a shadow governemnt for you conspiracy fans) has created a governing structure removed from public oversight. This structure is unrepentantly tied to corporate interests that profits from war, and has perpetuted the steady decline of our constitutional rights.

                          "Beware the military-induustrial complex" - Ike

                          This same complex has outsourced our manufacturing - this in turn has begun to gut the blue-collar middle class. This same complex has exhuasted our domestic resources, while China is just beginning to really develop theirs. The net result will soon be the US with a powerful military and a second rate economy, and China with a first rate and rapidly growing economy. History shows who comes out on top in that showdown.

                          Blah blah blah. Back in the 80s people were saying the same thing about Japan, but it never panned out.

                          This is just the yellow peril revisited.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Japan is NOT china, if Japan had half
                            the resources of China...

                            Anyways, it doesn't matter, its all about this :
                            $$$$$$

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If i recall correctly the Bushes are in buisness with the sons of the president in China so lets see how things face up

                              Comment

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