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    Edumacation

    Wastrel: I think that most of the funding has not actualy gone to teacher's salaries, and that is the root of the problem. The teachers suck, for the most part.

    Funding should go to increase teacher salaries to 80K across every state, with each teacher holding a BS or MS in their subject (or a BS in their subject, and a masters in education). They should also have to pass a rigorous exam in their subject every 5 years in order to get their credential(like a license to teach).

    This would up the standard for teachers.
    Generally better teachers = more well prepared students

    Why would you choose to be a teacher? For the long hours, low pay, mandatory unpaid 3 month "vacation" that you can't even collect unemployment from? It's no surprise that most teachers are from the lowest 1/4 of their college classes.

    As for everyone going to college, you are totally correct. Not everyone needs a college education, but I think america would be a more productive(intellectually) and interesting country if its citizens were more well informed on history, math, science, and literature.

    #2
    Brand... I totally agree with you. Luckly the high school I attend, most of science and history teacher are excellent teachers and almost all of them have at least MS degree. One of my teacher told me that she got paid 54,000 a year. Which isn't too bad.

    Most of my teacher was a retire military too and they all are much better than most average teacher.

    Also I think we should allows the teacher start caning the student again :-) (NO opposite gender caning though...)

    Just throw rock at it and it will go away.

    "I would rather admit I am a lousy student than say I am the best, because once you think you are the best, there is no reason to continue learning."
    I would pick bag work over masturbating, fighting over sex, and KOing someone over having a orgasm!

    Comment


      #3
      Brandeis,
      I almost completely agree with you, but with current educational demand being what it is, I can't imagine where we would find the money to fund that kind of payroll. Figure 80K plus benefits, and then training and sabbaticals if they're held to such high standards and pretty soon...WHAMMO...your budget for education is like 10% of GNP. And anyway...80K?! 80K in Wyoming? In San Francisco?! See the problem with consistency? At 80K they'd be making more than some university and college teachers. I think a starting salary at 35K MINIMUM would be fine. But we don't need MA/MS's in high schools. If you ramp up the demand for graduate degree holders that much, then down goes the quality of the graduate education. At 80K you'd have a hard time finding people to do a whole buncha other very important jobs. One thing, however, is that your proposal is entirely feasible if you accept that education will become a startlingly underprovided market, and many, many people will not have access. That would be fine if we provided alternate routes like trade schools etc.

      Another problem is the political environment in the classrooms, you're never going to attract good, employable people if they can't fail students without getting fired.

      I have a strange idea...I've been thinking that the govt. should severely retrench the size of education spending, the number of schools etc. and recreate the public school as a single elite civil institution. Free, but REALLY hard to qualify for. Then allow private markets to squeeze in to provide for the rest. There would be few enough seats at the public schools that there would be plenty left for private schools to fight over. The free, elite public schools would be of extremely high quality which would change the demand dynamic of the public schools from providing low quality education at a low rate of difficulty to competing over quality. I haven't thought too much about this, but I think the model is basically sound. Implementation is over maybe a decade and a half...or more.

      **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

      Edited by - The Wastrel on March 09 2003 22:49:44
      Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

      Comment


        #4
        You mean the japanese system?

        Of course they should be able to fail students. I thought that went without saying...

        As to where the money can come from... weren't we talking about how athletes get paid too much <img src=icon_smile.gif border=0 align=middle>
        I'm sure it could be raised by increasing the taxes*gasp*

        I think that if there is a high demand for teachers with graduate degrees (by the way, many states now require teachers to have graduate degrees), there may be a shortage for the first few years. But if more people get better quality education from these better teachers, it would be easy to imagine more people persuing these degrees.

        Then again, I also think there should be more trade schools (KFSS school, now that would be tempting!). People need skills, and trade schools could help standardize things. A mechanic everywhere would know how to do x on a ___ firebird

        Comment


          #5
          What we need is to up pay, add in the Value added assesment model used with the STARs program in Tenn (determines increse in knowledge of students and factors in socioecon concerns, race, etc), kill tenure, and then fire the teachers not getting results. Anyone in the private sector turning out results like most teachers would be fired in a hurry, why not in the public sector?
          Think about this, all told teachers work 8 monthes with 4 off. To really get thier salary, you need to add an extra third on there.
          And that's when I figured out that tears couldn't make somebody who was dead alive again. There's another thing to learn about tears, they can't make somebody who doesn't love you any more love you again. It's the same with prayers. I wonder how much of their lives people waste crying and praying to God. If you ask me, the devil makes more sense than God does. I can at least see why people would want him around. It's good to have somebody to blame for the bad stuff they do. Maybe God's there because people get scared of all the bad stuff they do. They figure that God and the Devil are always playing this game of tug-of-war game with them. And they never know which side they're gonna wind up on. I guess that tug-of-war idea explains how sometimes, even when people try to do something good, it still turns out bad.

          Comment


            #6
            I don't think that's really the Japanese system. I think they have a lot of public schools, but people compete like maniacs to get into and elite few. Same in Korea.

            I have no problem with an "increase" in taxes, though first I would like to see progressive tax reform. Americans pay rather low taxes, and yet expect SO MUCH.

            I worry about the dilution of American gradute schools. Already the American undergradute education is suffering.

            Trade schools would be great. I would even go so far as to say we should have athletics schools like they do in Korea. (And Japan too right?)

            **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
            Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

            Comment


              #7
              I think american [science] graduate schools are pretty safe actually. At least I hope so, since I'll [hopefully] get into one next year.

              Comment


                #8
                brandeissansoo,
                I think you're fine, but the proliferation of law schools (among professional schools) and MFA programs doesn't speak well in general of the American graduate school. I met an undergradute history student that didn't know what the Marshall Plan was. I met a girl with a BA in English Lit that didn't know what a "malapropism" was. Sure, anecdotal evidence, but I'm in the middle of it right now, and I'm shocked. At UC Davis, and in my program, the faculty is excellent, the courses are not undertaught, but the students are entirely content to earn C's all year. They think it has no impact on their employability, and they're not the least bit concerned with mastering their subject. Ah well.

                **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                Comment


                  #9
                  and then fire the teachers not getting results
                  This kind of stuff is part of the problem. This is why teachers are afraid to flunk students, or even issue C's sometimes. Believe me, I know plenty of very good people who left teaching because of this stuff.

                  **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                  Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I've got this Math teacher, Ms. Shene. Fattest vagina you'll ever see. And that's all I have to contribute to this discussion.

                    Captain's Log: Just a little update for all my TRUE and HONEST friends out there:

                    1) I am STRAIGHT! I am STRAIGHT! Get it through your thick skulls, numbskulls!

                    2) My name is not Ian Brandon Something.

                    3) Kacey is coming with me now. I have stolen her from the other Christian Weston Chandler.

                    REMINDER: I am still the one and only true creator of sonichu and rosechu electric hedgehog pokemon

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Boyd,
                      In junior high I had a G.A.T.E. (Gifted and Talented Education) teacher who sported the most incredible camel toe. She could have crossed the Sahara. And that's all I learned in G.A.T.E.

                      **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                      Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                      Comment


                        #12
                        How the hell do you guys see (or even look for) the camel toes on your teachers? Do they conduct class in bloomers or something?

                        -------------------------
                        Clap your hands everybody,
                        if you got what it takes
                        'Cause I'm Kurtis Blow
                        and I want you to know
                        that these are the breaks!
                        "The morning glory blooms for an hour. It differs not at heart from the giant pine, which lives for a thousand years."

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Heh, I was |-| close to going to uc davis.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            What program?


                            **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                            Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Mercurius,
                              No, fully dressed. But this was one bad camel.

                              **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                              Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

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