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    When to tap?

    I've been taking BJJ for close to 2 months now and I recently started Judo 1 day a week as well.

    On my first run at the Judo class I was rolling with one of the black belts. Twice when he almost had me submitting, he let go of the submission. After the second time, he asked me "You know about tapping right?". So I said ya of course, and we started rolling again.

    SO that leads me to the question. When is the right time to tap? Do you tap when you feel the pressure, do you tap when you HAVE too, or do you tap when you know your not getting out of the hold?

    I always tap when I know I cant get out, or when I HAVE too. But never when I just feel pressure, because I figure hey I might still be able to get out of this.

    Is this stupid? Should I be tapping earlier? Am I taking minor damage every time and its slowly going to become a problem for me? Or was the Judo guy just being nice?

    #2
    You should tap when you're in a submission and can't get out. Tap late and you'll be sore or worse. It's also the job of experianced students to protect newbies who don't know when to tap. Sounds like the BB was doing what he should.

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      #3
      It's practice; nobody wants anyone to get hurt. Tapping early willl be easier on you joints in the long run. Safety first. Your partner is likely not cranking the sub 100% either, so you might've gotten out because of that.

      Me, I tap when I know that the likelyhood of me getting out is very small. Think of it as punishment for being stupid enough to get in that situation in the first place.
      I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

      "Step away," I hissed.
      -Phil Elmore

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        #4
        Depends on who you rool with. As a newbie, err on the side of caution. You don't know the point at which a submission will cause damage yet (for the most part, you WILL feel right then and there that you should have tapped earlier, or you'll know the next day at the latest), and you don't know the attitude of your training partners yet. There are some people for whom I tap as soon as they have the arm, before they get a chance to rip it off. With others, you can fight it longer, but it will take time to figure out who's who.

        Fending off and fighting out of submissions that are halfway sunk is a useful skill later on, when you're thinking about competing. Again, as a newbie, it's better to acknowledge that you got caught, and reset to work on basic positioning and defense.
        There are no wrong threats, only wrong answers. (Strategy game truism)

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          #5
          Tap early, tap often....... That's the moto for beginners at my dojo.

          Your pride is not worth geting injured over.

          A lot of times we will resume rolling after a tap-out in order to safely go deeper into the sequences of escapes transitions and counters.

          Comment


            #6
            I did judo for ten years, and always tried to be a superhero when it came to sub-defense. I would lock up and post out of stuff all the time, and almost never tapped unless I felt the joint breaking or my vision going black.

            Now I train in MMA, and I tell you what...

            I tap real early now. If the guy gets the sub, and it is locked, just tap so you can start over again. The goal is to not get into positions where herculean effort is necessary to escape. In training, there is no need to get hurt just to prove you are tough (that's what the ring is for!).

            I tried that superhero shit for awhile in MMA class, all it got me was a stiff neck and aching shoulders and elbows. Now I focus on not getting into those scenarios; and if I do get caught, I tap and we start over. That way the quality of your training is not marred by continually getting injured.

            That being said, I still make the guy actually set the sub and apply pressure. I really hate it when a guy taps out before I even lock it in. If I'm screwing it up, I want to know by having you escape.
            And lo, Kano looked down upon the field and saw the multitudes. Amongst them were the disciples of Uesheba who were greatly vexed at his sayings. And Kano spake: "Do not be concerned with the mote in thy neighbor's eye, when verily thou hast a massive stick in thine ass".

            --Scrolls of Bujutsu: Chapter 5 vs 10-14.

            Comment


              #7
              Chances are the Judo Black Belt knows more about when he has you than you do. And that's fine, that's how it should be.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Bud Shi Dist
                Tap early, tap often....... That's the moto for beginners at my dojo.

                Your pride is not worth geting injured over.

                A lot of times we will resume rolling after a tap-out in order to safely go deeper into the sequences of escapes transitions and counters.
                Yes, do not pull a Renzo Gracie.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Dude.

                  You are 2months into training. You need to tap early and often. When you get some experience you can make the decision to tap based on having that experience. For example, I have been grappling for a number of years - I know from countless submissions what EXACTLY it takes to injure or choke me unconscious.

                  That being said, I realized many of my limits by going past them foolishly. This has rendered me unconscious and with several long-lasting injuries. So all of that being said you can learn it the easy way or the hard way. Those of us with some experience are going to recommend the easy way : tap early, tap often. You know when you are caught, you may not know yet when your shit is going to break unless you have broken it before.

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                    #10
                    Whenever I roll against the blues or higher at my school, I have a pretty good idea of when I'm going to get my ass kicked with a submission, so as the blur of motion is going on, I usually say "tap."

                    Comment


                      #11
                      I tap early. I've spend 2 out of the last three years as a cripple (unrelated injury) and I ain't going back under the knife unless I have to.
                      You say what about my rice?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I was just thinking about this thread again after I posted.

                        We have a guy in our class who will yell and scream and fight every submission. So I emailed him Gumby's article at onthemat.com about tapping. I have teased him about it many times, and finally had to have a heart to heart with him about it. In reality I have had a couple of those. Because I am such a nice guy I will let go of a submission instead of hurting someone.

                        However, he would continually fight submissions even at the point of no return. Sometimes he would scream, people would let go, and he would keep going saying he didnt tap. That really bothered me. So now he just got his blue belt and I no longer let go. After countless verbal warnings, an emailed article, and some under-the-wing advice he has to take responsibility for his own injuries. If I let go of every submission he will not improve, and it will instill a false sense of security thinking he can get out of everything without needing to avoid the positions that got him there in the first place. Now I laugh when he screams. Strangely enough he still blames me for his injuries...

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                          #13
                          Isn't screaming a little inappropriate?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You'd be suprised...
                            He also hits the mat and cusses real bad when he gets caught and has to tap.

                            It's really funny. And since my board persona is exactly how I am IRL I make fun of him constantly when he does this shit - just to piss him off.

                            One day I asked him if he needed a tissue or a shoulder to cry on.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Has anyone else in a position of authority confronted him about this?

                              I mean, I'm trying to imagine a grown man doing what you describe and it sounds completely insane/childish and I wouldn't think anyone would be willing to train with him, if not just for the stress, but risk of injury.

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