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    How to deal with N. Korea.

    It occured to me, that the West seems very afraid of N. Korea, afraid of the prospect of another Korean War. However, I think War is very likely in the future. So far the West has tried to deal with N. Korea through ransom payments and negotiations. Under the Clinton Adminstration N. Korea was given Oil, Food, and Nuclear Reactors. History should teach us that with dictators, concessions do not work. They have made the West disarm, while they continue to produce higher technology weapons while continuing to starve their own people and making us feed them. When War comes it will be with a better armed N. Korean Military who dictates how and when it will be fought.

    Now is it really coincidence that N. Korea is acting up while we are busy with Iraq? If you ask me, I think we have waited way too long with Iraq and we blew our chance to quickly deal with our enemies. Now Al Qaeda, Iraq, and it seems N. Korea are coordinating their moves. Well I hope we're all satisfied, this War with Iraq could have been over and done with already now we have the danger of enemies becoming more organized and coordinating their moves. Al Qaeda is in Iraq, if they weren't there before they sure as hell are now. N. Korea is being difficult and making public their aims to create Nukes.

    What do we do now? Continue to stall in Iraq while simultaneoussly trying to buy off the N. Koreans with more concessions? I don't think so.

    #2
    We should 0wn them. Like this:



    Then after the war, this will be on the news:


    And then we will capture Kim Jong and do this to him

    Comment


      #3
      i saw that ufc clip lol

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        #4
        Magik you are giving these guys too much credit. You really think they are all working together?
        Al Qaeda is in Iraq, if they weren't there before they sure as hell are now.
        Al-Queda is in a LOT of countries, including the States, Britian, Canada, etc, but that doesn't really mean anything.

        And as for N. Korea, do you think its just coincidence that they started all this Saber rattling AFTER Bush delcared them part of the axis-of-evil? If I were N.Korea, I would believe that it meant we were on the list to be attacked. Then I would go for nukes, and fast, because nobody would risk invading a country with nukes.

        How else would you explain the N.K. requests for a non-aggression pact, which the states refuses to sign? Why wouldn't you sign it unless you were planning on attacking?

        And please, keep your answeres civil, it'd be nice to have a political discussion without it degrading into liberal/conservative bullshit.

        "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
        -Ghandi

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          #5
          The problem with North Korea is a big one. They should be able to manufacture a fair amount of weopon grade plutonium in about six months or so. Plus they have the No-dong misssiles whom they been selling to anyone who wants one.

          "Do what thou wilt is the whole of the Law"
          Ghost of Charles Dickens

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            #6
            Well Epsilon, first I highly doubt that N. Korea ever stopped aspiring for Nuclear Weapons. I highly doubt that they stopped their research programs ect. Second Bush's saber rattling is no excuse to break treaties and continue on openly, it only become affective if we allow them to use that excuse to continue what they're doing. N. Korea is probably just tugging at the International heart strings.

            Its Reagan's Evil Empire speech all over again. Bush spoke only the truth. N. Korea really is an Evil Regime. As for the Non-aggression pact, are you informed of the specifics of the pact? I'm not, but with things like that I'm sure it was a little bit more complicated than just being a Non-Aggression Pact. Its like bills being passed in Congress, I'm sure there are aspects of it, probably centered around Disarmament of ROK/US forces along the demilitarized zone that our Military would object to.

            >>>How else would you explain the N.K. requests for a non-aggression pact, which the states refuses to sign? Why wouldn't you sign it unless you were planning on attacking?

            Trut me there's plenty of reasons not to sign those, its like signing a contract. If someone handed you one, you would look over it very carefully and if you saw something you didn't like then you wouldn't sign it. I'm not familiar with the Non-Aggression Pact, but its never that simple, and saying that the reason why we don't want to sign it is because we want to attack is a bit premature if we don't examine the varying aspects of that pact.

            Now is Al-Qaeda, Iraq, Iran, N. Korea, all working together? No probably not. But they're not stupid either, they watch T.V too and pay attention to World Events. So if they don't coordinate directly with each other I'm sure their moves as individual powers are made with the thought that the U.S is busy dealing with different problems.

            It might be something simple, like Iran allowing Al Qaeda operatives through their country to get to Iraq and set up camp there in preparations for a much delayed U.S attack.

            All politics aside, or whether the war is right or wrong or what have you, we can't deny the fact that the longer this inevitable war is delayed the more time these people have to prepare for it. Which means more U.S casualties.

            Comment


              #7
              I would agree with you magik (grudgingly) about N.K. prolly never giving up its aspirations for nukes. But even you have to admit that Bush' speech must have spurred them into a more aggressive stance. My position isn't that NK is not a prob, my position is that Bush is a moron for openly claiming that in his axis of evil speech!! He should have kept his plans more secretive, instead of giving everyone lots of time to prepare for his actions.



              "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"
              -Ghandi

              Comment


                #8
                Well, certainly have wasted our time with Iraq, I say this War would have been over by now and Saddam taken out of power. We would be working on a Democratic Government for Iraq, the first in the Middle East, but we dragged our feet instead.

                I'm not sure how much bearing the speech had on N. Korea. I regard rhetoric like that coming out from the admin and N. Korea as simply made for public consumption. But N. Korea has always been like that, they like to rattle their sabers, fire off a few missiles into the sea of japan and try to scare the locals into feeding their starving masses. What they do is nothing new, that's what that regime is all about, extortion. I think N. Korea is entirely responsible for their own actions and I'm not willing to attribute their thuggery to Bush's speech.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Magik: what are you talking about, Iraq is a democratic country! Didn't you hear, Saddam got 100% of the vote in the last election, and there is cumpulsory voting! That means everyone in the country voted for saddam. Ah, democracy in action *sheds tear

                  Comment


                    #10
                    "I actually agree with what NKorea is doing. Bush fucked up. But, I happen to live here so"

                    Don't aqree Osiris, but to each his own. N. Korea scares me more then Irag. The fact that they have a nuclear device(s) is chilling. Plus, I think they are desperate enough to possibly us it.

                    I appreciate what Bush is doing. I think he is up against strong anti-American forces both internally and externally. The world is against anything he purposes for one reason because I don't think they see him a legitemate. We have discussed before. I think he is legit. I think the dems and outside interest are doing alot to damage his credibility. The danger I see is they bring us all closer to catastrophic events. No I am not saying blindly support anything he does, but to say he is not being undermined is not true also.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Don't aqree Justme, but to each his own. The U.S. scares me more then N. Korea. The fact that they have a nuclear device(s) is chilling. Plus, I think they are arrogant enough to possibly us it.
                      -----------------------------------------------------
                      "The difference between us, and other martial arts websites you might be looking for, is that we're not going to feed you, well, bullshit about martial arts."
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                        #12
                        Alright I'm going to pop my head up here for a moment and see if I can help. First of all, I want to mention that I am close to converting to support for a war against Iraq. However, I do not trust the Bush admin to do anything but win the immediate conflict. They are not up to the task of rebuilding any post-war Iraq into a semblance of sustainable order. Following are some disordered comments on North Korea that are being made without references. It has been awhile since I studied most of this material. Some things may have changed, and other things I cannot reveal. Everything that follows is available from open sources:

                        Ministry of the People's Armed Forces (MPAF): Active ground forces personnel total over 1,000,000 divided into 20 corps. Paramilitary and reserve forces total over 7,000,000 personnel. All North Korean men are subject to compulsory military service. There is a specified service period, but it is typically ignored. Pilots especially have served for as long as 11 years before they were allowed to leave.

                        North Korean corps are basically deployed in two tiers-the primary or front-line corps, and the secondary corps. The organization reflects a strategic doctrine that claims to be based around repelling an invasion from the South, but looks more like a rapid attack/invasion force. Front line corps are to be used to punch holes at specific points along the ROK/US FLOT (forward line of troops) in order to allow the more rapid and mobile secondary corps to pour through defensive gaps and outflank/surround and destroy opposing units. To that end North Korea has an impressive arsenal of conventional artillery weapons (roughly 15,000:that's about 1 for every 2 american soldiers on the Korean peninsula!!!!), self-propelled artillery, MRLs (thousands), armor (5-6,000), and highly skilled SOF forces with experience penetrating and navigating the DMZ.

                        The air force is negligble in light of any comparison to the U.S. and the ROK. Their air defenses are repectable, and any attempt at waging an air campaign a la Bosnia and what is being proposed in Iraq would be extremely inadvisable, if not utterly impossible. NK learned from the devastation that enemy air forces inflicted on them during the Korean War.
                        The navy is laughable, that's all I have to say about that.
                        Caveat: I was in ground forces, thus my knowledge of KPAF and KPN capabilities is extremely limited.

                        In addition, you must recall that Seoul is easily within range of North Korea's massive artillery arsenal-the city would be destroyed in minutes. From first-hand experience, I can tell you that the U.S. could not organize any comparable response in less than a few hours. The 2 ID referred to itself as the "speed bump".

                        Any talk of war in NK cannot eliminate the importance of China in any possible conflict. American naval and air superiority over NK is decisive, but reckless aggression in NK could trigger a reluctant Chinese defense, which would be...problematic. And introduces the possibility of nuclear conflict, not to mention the possibility of drawing in the PRC's dire enemy India, another nuclear power...and by extension PAKISTAN!! Another nuclear power with very little command and control over its own arsenal!! Ah, what fun!

                        One way or the other, South Korea would probably be obliterated.

                        If North Korea develops a reliable capability to launch strikes against Japan, or even more distant targets, the containment of NK will be effectively destroyed. We will lose our ability to pressure North Korea over any kind of diplomatic issues whatsoever. The most reliable hope of controlling a belligerent North is in courting close diplomatic relationship with the far more reasonable People's Republic of China, without whose logistic and intelligence support NK could not successfully wage any war.

                        There is NO equivalence between NK and Iraq. Everyone, please stop claiming that American failure to wage war on NK proves that a war in Iraq is about oil.

                        Osiris, if you think dealing with NK is justified, imagine what Iraq could be in ten years. Then we'll have two countries that we can't engage!

                        The reason Bush's axis of evil comment was stupid is that it merely provided NK with an excuse to continue with nuclear weapons programs openly. The US and the UN now have no diplomatic reason whatsoever to claim that NK is violating any agreements. They are now simply another sovereign nation pursuing a nuclear weapons program.

                        The NKs are right. The Agreed Framework was violated a long time ago. The light water reactors were supposed to be built by 2003, they have not been completed. They were most likely continuing work on their nukes the entire time, but Bush played right into their hands. He is an idiot. State dept people were SHOCKED when they heard his speech. They knew it was a disaster.

                        Relevant documents to read:

                        The armistice that ended the Korean war, which notably, ROK president Rhee Seungman refused to sign!!

                        1994 agreed framework, carefully

                        Non-aggression pact proposed by the North, carefully.


                        GongSau: If the U.S. scares you more than NK does...WTF?!

                        **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**
                        Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Well like I said, what they are doing will only be effective if we let it. If we just sit here and go "yah Bush's speech gave them the excuse to continue their program" then we get owned politically. Everybody knows NK is not dumb enough to ever stop pursuing a Nuclear weapons program. Pursuing Nuclear weapons isn't really all that Evil in on itself, but at the hands of a regime like NKs? I see years of extortion, and misery for Asia.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I agree, but Bush's approach is ignorant. At least he isn't proposing a war. Apparently somebody told him it couldn't be done. I refer you to this comment in my above post.

                            The most reliable hope of controlling a belligerent North is in courting close diplomatic relationship with the far more reasonable People's Republic of China, without whose logistic and intelligence support NK could not successfully wage any war.
                            But no, the Bush Admin, like every conservative and most liberal American admins in recent history, has a gigantic hard-on for Japan (Asia's white men). It's unbelievable to me that the US continues to court Japan as a regional stabilizer. Hello! Article IX of the Japanese constitution expressly forbids Japan maintain anything other than a domestic defense force, and SCAP (Supreme Command Allied Powers) wrote the damn thing. You think we'd realize that at least! And nobody, not even North Korea, is as universally despised in Asia as Japan.

                            China, China, China is the answer. Want to control North Korea? Court China. Want to break UN deadlock? Court China. Want to jumpstart the American economy? Court China. Want reliable stability in Asia? Court China. But no, they're "communists".


                            **The most miraculous power that can verifiably be attributed to "chi" is its ability to be all things to virtually all people, depending on what version of the superstition they are attempting to defend at any given moment.**

                            Edited by - The Wastrel on February 28 2003 13:42:56
                            Normally, I'd say I was grappling, but I was taking down and mounting people, and JFS has kindly informed us that takedowns and being mounted are neither grappling nor anti grappling, so I'm not sure what the fuck I was doing. Maybe schroedinger's sparring, where it's neither grappling nor anti-grappling until somoene observes it and collapses the waveform, and then I RNC a cat to death.----fatherdog

                            Comment


                              #15
                              "China, China, China is the answer. Want to control North Korea? Court China. Want to break UN deadlock? Court China. Want to jumpstart the American economy? Court China. Want reliable stability in Asia? Court China. But no, they're "communists"."

                              Want really good General Tso's Chicken, court China!

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