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    #76
    To be 100% honest, I haven't read most of it. I'm just pre-emptively defending any attempts to attack the Scientific method and/or Science.

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      #77
      Originally posted by Phrost
      Belief is for weak-minded people
      I could not possibly agree more. The best thinkers do not talk about what 'reality' 'is' anymore. They talk about the best current 'model' with which to understand things. It takes tremendous courage to live in uncertainty, but i think it is the only intelligent response.

      My original comment was "Sceptics can become dogmatic if they are not careful."

      And I stand by it. This does not in any way invalidate my appreciation for the scientific method.
      "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."

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        #78
        Zendetta is pretty much attacking the skeptical position by saying that belief in the paranormal is ok because science can be flawed. That's the sum of his arguments.
        "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Phrost
          To be 100% honest, I haven't read most of it. I'm just pre-emptively defending any attempts to attack the Scientific method and/or Science.
          Damn Dude!
          Read my posts - i am fighting for people to honestly and humbly examine their preconceptions and biases, because these are the things that interfere with the efficiency of the method.
          "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."

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            #80
            Originally posted by Thaiboxerken
            Zendetta is pretty much attacking the skeptical position by saying that belief in the paranormal is ok because science can be flawed. That's the sum of his arguments.
            What a flaming stack of horseshit. That's what You are saying that I'm saying.

            That's the fight you WISH I was fighting, because its a fight you are ready for. You are, alas, very unprepared for the issue that I am bringing up.

            As long as you are insisting on trying to put words in my mouth rather than hear my positions, you are, in essence, shouting loudly while cupping your hands over your ears.

            In other words, no better than any other dogmatist who is afraid of new information.
            "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."

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              #81
              Arrrg my nose, too much horseradish.

              Anyway, I like believeing in paranormal things as it makes life more fun, I'm not psychotically zealous about it, and I'm not a Foucultist about life either as that would make life utterly no fun.
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGXiN-_BCts

              Numa ^ 3

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                #82
                Originally posted by Zendetta
                I could not possibly agree more. The best thinkers do not talk about what 'reality' 'is' anymore. They talk about the best current 'model' with which to understand things. It takes tremendous courage to live in uncertainty, but i think it is the only intelligent response.

                My original comment was "Sceptics can become dogmatic if they are not careful."

                And I stand by it. This does not in any way invalidate my appreciation for the scientific method.

                great response.

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by Quikfeet509
                  great response.
                  Thank you.
                  "You know what I like about you, William? You like guns AND meditation."

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                    #84
                    I've only seen documentaries with Skeptic people, haven't actually ready any issues. From what I could tell, those guys are as close minded as rednecks. UFOs? "NO no no no NO! Those people's is CRAZY!" Nevermind the fact that cave paintings have UFO's on them, Reinassance pictures have them, so many people claim them. They're all crazy.

                    Do those guys actually conduct experiiments? Or do they just "debunk" myths based on what they think it should be? One of the things about being a scientist is that you HAVE TO be open-minded. Breakthroughs are made when people take leaps of faith and it turns out to be in the right direction. Insisting that you know the ins and outs of the universe and that everybody else is crazy makes you no better than any souther conservative Christian. Except you don't have to be white.

                    PL

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                      #85
                      Nevermind the fact that cave paintings have UFO's on them, Reinassance pictures have them, so many people claim them. They're all crazy.
                      They don't call these people crazy, just mistaken. Also, the "UFO's" in paintings are not evidence of ET life, in fact, many of those "UFO's" in paintings are actually religious symbols. The skeptics have done the research to find this out. The UFOlogists have not.

                      Or do they just "debunk" myths based on what they think it should be?
                      They debunk based on science and historical research. There is still no evidence of extraterrestial spaceships visiting the earth.

                      One of the things about being a scientist is that you HAVE TO be open-minded.
                      Yes, but another requirement is to be skeptical. Skeptics are open-minded. We change our minds when evidence is presented. The UFO people haven't produced any.

                      It is a fact that there are UFO sightings, but that only means that there are some things that people couldn't identify that happened to be in the air. There is no evidence that UFO's are spaceships. UFO's could also be pixies, fairies, flying dragons or extraterrestial aliens.. or they could be unidentified planes, flares or natural phenomena. My bet is on the latter explanations until there is evidence to support the former absurdities.

                      Insisting that you know the ins and outs of the universe and that everybody else is crazy makes you no better than any souther conservative Christian.
                      Skeptics don't do this, we admit when we don't know something. We don't claim to know everything. However, not one credible piece of evidence can support the claim that extraterrestial beings have visited Earth. Thus, there is no reason to believe that they have.
                      "Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire.

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                        #86
                        Umm which Renaissance paintings have UFO's in them?
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGXiN-_BCts

                        Numa ^ 3

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by AkiraMusashi
                          Umm which Renaissance paintings have UFO's in them?
                          No, this was completely debunked and is just wishful thinking by the woos who believe in them in the Nov 04 issue of Skeptic. I have the issue, I'll have to scan it or something... can't find the article online.

                          The problem is that the believers are just ignorant of renaissance styles of painting.

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                            #88
                            Maybe not all Renaissance then. :)

                            http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Thebes/2399/ufo.jpg

                            "saucer-shaped" UFO there.

                            http://www.etcontact.net/Other/Medie...edievalArt.htm

                            http://www.geocities.com/jilaens/renai.htm

                            http://www.2012.com.au/Historical.paintings.pdf

                            This is the only evidence that makes me believe something is going on. Eye witness reports or whatnot these days is bogus, since the whole UFO craze began years after Roswell, but back in the day to have seen these things?

                            By the way, I'm not a nut or claiming that Aliens exist or anything, just that something is going on, and we should actually take the time to investigate it.

                            Watch some UFO-type programs on science channels (they have them on now and then), they also show videos UFOs. You *could* try going to UFO websites, but a lot of that is eye-witness report write-ins, and pictures that look like specs on windshields.

                            PL

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                              #89
                              Originally posted by Phrost
                              No, this was completely debunked and is just wishful thinking by the woos who believe in them in the Nov 04 issue of Skeptic. I have the issue, I'll have to scan it or something... can't find the article online.

                              The problem is that the believers are just ignorant of renaissance styles of painting.
                              I'd like to see it. I am ignorant to all forms of art, so I could be wrong. It's just wierd how people report flying saucers now that look like the ones in the paintings. Most people are also ignorant of art.

                              PL

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                                #90
                                Originally posted by Poop-Loops
                                I'd like to see it. I am ignorant to all forms of art, so I could be wrong. It's just wierd how people report flying saucers now that look like the ones in the paintings. Most people are also ignorant of art.

                                PL
                                Best I can do, short of mailing you my copy is this link where you can order a back issue yourself.

                                http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic11-19-04.html

                                It's a pretty thorough debunking. You have to remember, "woo" (a more general term for "Bullshido") can only exist in the gaps of real knowledge. This sounds totally f'ing preachy, but the above is a perfect example of the gullible making or believing assumptions out of total ignorance instead of trying to find out the truth using actual logic, reason, and evidence.

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