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Grappling between weight classes

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    Grappling between weight classes

    Despite the icon, my grappling is primarily JJJ, but the way I train it people have said it seems like BJJ to them.

    Point is, I weigh fuck all. I weigh 60 - 65kg, and am 6 feet tall. I generally look quite a lot heavier than I am when I'm in a gi.

    When I grapple in class, I'm partnered with people by height, so they usually have a good 10kg on me. One guy I grapple from time to time has 25kg on me.

    Some of you must have fought people heavier than you - how hard did you find it? When I'm mounted normally or pinned from the side I have a hell of a time getting the guy off me, and I can't tell if it's because I suck or whether it's always going to be damn hard trying to shift someone heavier than me.

    Am I going to have to be way ahead of these guys in technique to stand a serious chance? (I don't get my ass handed to me, we're all beginners and I'm relatively good at getting locks on, but when I'm pinned I just end up trying to bounce them off me until they slip or lose concentration).

    I don't want to end up grappling guys that are a foot shorter than me and whupping them because it's just not realistic. And don't tell me to put weight on because I'm trying.

    #2
    I regularly spar with one guy who I estimate to be 100kg+ (I'm a little under the 80 mark), incredibly strong and an advanced white belt. I can't do shit to him. He submits me at will, much faster than most blue belts. I can't even open his guard (even a brazillian black belt in the 90kg range had trouble with that last wednsday).

    But.. when it comes to other bigger guys my measly six months of BJJ tells me that they're just a bit more tiring. I just accept that I'm going to have to play bottom, and look for the sweep. It takes a lot more patience and skill to actually sweep them, but it's possible. I generally find that I have to move around a lot in order for them to not get a firm grip and put their weight on me. I actually kind of like sparring bigger people.. I get a kick out of submitting them, and when they submitt me I just blame it on their size. :thumbsup:
    I pointed at him [the panhandler], bringing my rear hand up in a subtle approximation of the double Wu Sau guard that is the default hand position in Wing Chun Kung Fu.

    "Step away," I hissed.
    -Phil Elmore

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      #3
      I'm 5'10 and about 90kg, so most of the people I spar are my weight and under. There are a few people who either weigh more than me, or are about the same but physically stronger, and they wear me out so quickly its not funny.
      I work for position, not subs, but I suspect for people of my skill level but less weight it has to suck.
      When rolling with those heavier than me, the first thing to go is normally my grip strength (especially in my left hand), which is often capitalised upon.
      Taking responsibility for my actions since 1989

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        #4
        Wieght matters. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

        But then again so does speed, power, technique, experience...etc.

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          #5
          Yrkoon9 is correct as usual. One of my training partners has 70lbs on me and if I'm underneath it takes a lot of hard work to regain my guard, and once he gets his favourite position (mount) it's all over for me.

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            #6
            I am consistently outweighed by at least 20 lbs. I have had the displeasure of rolling with people with 70 lbs on me. I pretty much accept that when I am outweighed by that much I am going to have to try for subs from the gaurd. When the difference is 20 to 30 lbs I can usually get a sweep. Keep in mind that my overall skills are far from flawless and I've only had about 6 months (on and off) grappling. When I finally roll with people around my weight I find my sweeps to be comparably effortless and I have a distinct advantage (assuming the skill level is somewhere close to mine).

            Weight can make a big difference, but superior technique and speed can more consistently best big guys who are used to being able to force everything. Of course a big guy who is good at what he does can toss you around like a rag doll though. Take it as a challenge and realize that the weight difference matters and don't be too discouraged about not being able to move a mountain of a man.

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              #7
              I'm smaller than most of the people I spar with, sometimes by 30 lbs, 50 lbs. or up to 150 lbs. I've never going to be bigger or stronger than these guys. So what do I do?

              I work on being more flexible. I pay more attention to details in instruction. I make sure I do extra drilling when they don't. I make sure I come to class more than them.

              Bigger and stronger guys might always have the advantage of being bigger and stronger. Find your own advantages and make the most of them.

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                #8
                Man, you guys ain't got no idea! Well, some of you do...

                Put it this way, I can't remember the last time I even rolled with someone my own weight. The smallest person I roll with generally has 15 to 20 lbs on me and that's rare. Mostly they have 40 to 100 lbs on me easy. Not sure what the conversion is to Kg guys and I'm lazy but it's a lot.

                The benefits:

                You learn very good technique.
                You can find openings where other people have little opportunity.
                You learn awsome defense skills and become very hard to submit.
                People severly underestimate you. (The first time anyway).
                You learn patience.
                You have better than average abilities to tie people up. (Goes w/ defense)
                You also learn to move around people instead of moving them.

                The drawbacks:

                You fight from defensive positions a lot.
                You can get stuck in bad situations and have to "wait" to get out.
                It's hard to submit bigger people who aren't even as skilled as you.
                People can muscle you with sloppy technique while thinking they're the bomb.
                Takedown can be difficult.

                Skills you need to learn and hone:

                Speed
                Solid technique
                Endurance
                Smart fighting
                Patience


                My key to success is being faster, smarter and better conditioned than the bigger guys. If I am lagging on my conditioning then I lag when I roll. If I am in super good shape than I'm quicker and can outlast them. i.e. weather the storm... You also need to play smart.

                When I'm on the bottom my legs and hips work independantly of my upper body. This is tough to describe. You will need to learn this if your small. Watch the bigger guys fight/roll and they are typically not doing this until they are more advanced if ever. I'll mess with an opponent with my arms/hands while my legs are doing something different and the opponent will need to defend one or the other. Now I'm out or back in the guard.

                Cheers!

                Boris
                London
                .
                :icon_twis
                .

                To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
                Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
                Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Aesopian
                  I'm smaller than most of the people I spar with, sometimes by 30 lbs, 50 lbs. or up to 150 lbs. I've never going to be bigger or stronger than these guys. So what do I do?

                  I work on being more flexible. I pay more attention to details in instruction. I make sure I do extra drilling when they don't. I make sure I come to class more than them.
                  Aeso is the correct... flexability is key as well. I forgot that one!

                  :5hot:
                  .
                  :icon_twis
                  .

                  To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
                  Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
                  Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness

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                    #10
                    I was going to say... Rolling in class is very rarely split into weight categories.

                    And it's good that way. Get used to rolling with monsters and someone your own size will seem like a birthday present!
                    Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
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                      #11
                      My official advice from my instructor was that I don't need to do any weight training, but that I need to work flexibility.

                      It'll sound funny and I'm sure someone is going to make some auto-fellatio joke, but he said I need to work my flexibility so I can feel fine with my knees next to my head from someone stacking me like a ton of brick. It helps guard work INCREDIBLELY. I see bigger guys than myself giving up and letting people pass just because they can't handle the stack, when I would still have been good to go.

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                        #12
                        Yeah, that is a bit Romo man!

                        But... I'm there too. I can put my knees by my head and stacking has little effect.

                        As for SuperCraps comment about getting used to big guys and small guys becoming easy. I agree and disagree. I get so used to being the smaller faster guy that when I roll with someone equally as fast it totally throws me off my game.
                        .
                        :icon_twis
                        .

                        To fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence;
                        Supreme excellence consists in breaking the enemy's resistance without spilling your Guinness.
                        Sun "Fu Man JhooJits" Tzu, the Art of War & Guinness

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Aesopian,
                          I agree that flexibility can help, but be careful. Playing a game like that is for young men (how many older guys do this?), because sooner or later you'll end up hurting your back. I used to play like that until I got a back injury. The other black belt at my club used to play like that but injured his back. I warned a blue belt at my club against doing this but he said it was no problem. And it wasn't until he tried it against someone double his size and the blue belt injured his back.
                          Be careful.

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                            #14
                            Thanks for the warning JohnnyS, I find that is the one direction I am flexible in, and so I let it happen to me often. I can be stacked with my knees near my head and not have a problem. However I don't want back problems later...
                            Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
                            Scramble Stuff

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by charmin
                              And don't tell me to put weight on because I'm trying.
                              How old are you? I only ask because I was skinny as a rake all my life, eating all the shit I wanted and never gaining a pound.

                              Then at 21 I suddenly got big. I had to work hard to lose it again.

                              Be careful, you can't have the metabolism of Bruce Lee forever...
                              Imports from Japan, Shipping Worldwide! Art Junkie, Scramble, BJJ Spirits, Reversal...
                              Scramble Stuff

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