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Non-Competitive Judo

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  • Te No Kage!
    replied
    Competition is good simply for the fact that you're putting yourself out there against people you've never fought before. In the dojo when doing randori you eventually learn your partners strengths and weaknesses. As far as the rules..... leg locks, wrist locks, neck cranks etc., we've probably talked that subject to death. But randori and shiai are extremely important tools for learning self-defence, and itself is more important than say doing away with it to learn a few leg locks.

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  • Bang!
    replied
    Sounds like fun! Stick it out and soon enough you'll have your own behemoths to throw around.

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  • Loxocemidae
    replied
    Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
    What are you "HAing about? I don't see a problem in leaving openings for junior students to find and exploit. This can still be employed with substantial resistance and without comprimise to more established techniques.
    Because, I am a junior student.

    I'd say it helps a lot if they are a white/yellow belt, but even when I was a white belt I really didn't want anyone giving me openings on purpose, or just LETTING me throw them, unless I was learning how to do a certain throw for the first time.

    But what I was "HA-ing" about... Me being 6'1" 210 pounds I have to randori with the adults all the time, (who happen to be 2nd-3rd degree brown) and they go all out. Last night I was choked so much I almost passed out, though, it's made me a lot tougher... The other juniors up there will whine if they land wrong...

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  • Bang!
    replied
    What are you "HAing about? I don't see a problem in leaving openings for junior students to find and exploit. This can still be employed with substantial resistance and without comprimise to more established techniques.

    Leave a comment:


  • Loxocemidae
    replied
    "3. During Randori, the senior grade should permit the junior grade reasonable opportunity to apply techniques and must exercise care and control when throwing."

    HA.

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  • Wounded Ronin
    replied
    Originally posted by Jekyll
    Well there are these guys....

    Zen Judo
    http://www.zenjudo.co.uk/

    Randori rules from http://gordonlawson.tripod.com/id13.html

    "1. During Randori, movement should be relaxed, and techniques applied without strength

    2. One must not move against blocks applied during Randori

    3. During Randori, the senior grade should permit the junior grade reasonable opportunity to apply techniques and must exercise care and control when throwing.

    4. No Half sacrifices to be applied to white belts

    5. No full sacrifices to be applied to any grade below green belt.

    6. Green belts and above may be thrown over the body, providing this is mutually acceptable.

    7. White belts must not be lifted during Randori, they should be thrown by the application of blocks only."

    From http://www.zenjudo.co.uk/zenjudo/mai...y/zen_hist.htm

    "As Judo spread throughout the West it slowly gained the form of a sport. Its inclusion in the 1964 Olympic Games and popularity in World and Regional Games led to an emphasis on its physical aspects, sometimes at the expense of its intellectual, moral and spiritual underpinnings. In an effort to preserve the philosophical and spiritual aspects of Dr.Kano's art Zen Judo was created in England in 1974. ............... Zen Judo dojos do not participate in tournaments or competitions. As a Judo ryu it is devoted to technique, skill, and merit rather than the athletic ability."

    I came across them on wikipedia. But it seems to be how to make judo more suitable for the elderly and less for self defence.

    How can they have more technique and skill if they never have to work for it against a resisting opponent? Seems to me like they missed the entire point of judo in the first place.

    In fact, Zen is all about acting in a decisive and unified manner in all things without extraneous intellectual interference. Getting your underwear in a twist because some guy keeps blocking your throw and then adjust the the rules so that your throw always works when you want it to would be very un-Zen, since rather than working at making your technique work you instead just want to play in an arena of facile self-validation.

    EDIT: Also, weren't some of the people who studied directly under Kano famous for having gone around the world for challenge matches?
    Last edited by Wounded Ronin; 2/05/2005 7:50pm, .

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  • Bang!
    replied
    Perhaps you could tell me what aspect of my own training in tai chi is divorced from reality.

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  • Deadpan Scientist
    replied
    Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
    My impression is that judo would be substantially more effective from an SD perspective if it were to ditch its competition ruleset. Has anyone actually done this?
    if you're concerned with reality, why do you train in tai chi?

    Leave a comment:


  • Jekyll
    replied
    Yeh. The above was my attempt to say so on Wikipedia with out being judgemental.

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  • Ronin
    replied
    Pussy judo.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jekyll
    replied
    Well there are these guys....

    Zen Judo
    http://www.zenjudo.co.uk/

    Randori rules from http://gordonlawson.tripod.com/id13.html

    "1. During Randori, movement should be relaxed, and techniques applied without strength

    2. One must not move against blocks applied during Randori

    3. During Randori, the senior grade should permit the junior grade reasonable opportunity to apply techniques and must exercise care and control when throwing.

    4. No Half sacrifices to be applied to white belts

    5. No full sacrifices to be applied to any grade below green belt.

    6. Green belts and above may be thrown over the body, providing this is mutually acceptable.

    7. White belts must not be lifted during Randori, they should be thrown by the application of blocks only."

    From http://www.zenjudo.co.uk/zenjudo/mai...y/zen_hist.htm

    "As Judo spread throughout the West it slowly gained the form of a sport. Its inclusion in the 1964 Olympic Games and popularity in World and Regional Games led to an emphasis on its physical aspects, sometimes at the expense of its intellectual, moral and spiritual underpinnings. In an effort to preserve the philosophical and spiritual aspects of Dr.Kano's art Zen Judo was created in England in 1974. ............... Zen Judo dojos do not participate in tournaments or competitions. As a Judo ryu it is devoted to technique, skill, and merit rather than the athletic ability."

    I came across them on wikipedia. But it seems to be how to make judo more suitable for the elderly and less for self defence.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bang!
    replied
    Originally posted by ronin69
    Anyone in the turtle is fair game for knees, elbows and wedgies.
    Oh yeah! Can you feel that? Can . . . you . . . feel . . . that?

    Leave a comment:


  • Beneath Contempt
    replied
    As an aside - I would change the rules as follows:

    1) Get rid of kokas and yukos.

    2) Each match is best of 3 rounds, each of 3 minutes.

    3) First round is nage-waza only. You can only win by throwing for ippon, 2 waza-aris or having a higher score at the end of time.

    4) Second round is newaza only. Start standing, but victory is by submission or osaekomi only. You can throw - but there is no scoring.

    5) Final round (only if there is no winner from first two) is "normal" judo rules. 3 minutes combined standing/ground rules.

    Leave a comment:


  • Scrapper
    replied
    Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
    Let me ask you guys this:

    If you had to modify the competition ruleset for judo to encourage more effective SD, what would you do?
    Shido for turtling more than 5 seconds.

    More groundwork.

    Leg locks.

    Leave a comment:


  • Beneath Contempt
    replied
    I think the phrase "non-competition judo" is better. "Non-competitive" gives totally the wrong impression.

    Leave a comment:

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