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Cross-Training vs. MMA vs. Getting in there at all

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    Cross-Training vs. MMA vs. Getting in there at all

    This is a tangent from this thread

    Essentially, the contention is that MMA-specific training is going to create a better fighter than cross-training in various specialities. There are good arguments for and against this. However, Beneath Contempt makes a very interesting point that I'd like to continue discussion of it here:

    Originally posted by Beneath Contempt
    The problem is that the vast majority of novices are looking for maybe one or two classes a week for reasons that are very ill-defined - normally something between general health and soothing an insecurity about being pushed around at school. For these people - a diverse program of grappling and striking with calculated sparring and conditioning is not going to help. They will most likely turn off altogether and take up volleyball or some bullshit style which offers a more easily acceptable package.
    I would argue that a fundamental level of "toughness" is required before one is willing to undertake the above-described regime -- no matter what it's value. There just aren't that many people who happen to be sufficiently tough from the get-go to do this.

    The good news is that toughness can be developed; the bad news is that it takes a long process of getting progressively good at something until one is both accustomed and willing to take a little pain in the name of further development. Somewhere around this time, MMA seems like a great idea.

    A somewhat strained analogy would be learning to duel with pistols. People will tell you that pistol matches with untrained or -- better yet -- unarmed opponents are easy; it's the skilled ones you have to watch out for. As such, you'd better be able to shoot when you've already been hit. "Here, take this body armour that will cover your head and internal organs, but watch out for those flesh wounds!" Not something that most people are ready to hear on their first day of class.

    I believe that for this reason, we're never going to see more than a small percentage of MMA competitors start out in an MMA environment.
    Last edited by Bang!; 2/02/2005 9:38am, .

    #2
    Go bowling.
    “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

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      #3
      I don't know if you're kidding or not, as the appropriate HTML tags have not been inserted, so please elaborate on what you're trying to say.

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        #4
        I'm saying that if a person does not want to commit to martial arts training which requires considerable time, effort, blood, sweat, pain, agony, etc., then they should not waste their time and go bowling instead.
        “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

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          #5
          I think he's trying to tell you, monkey-to-monkey, that if you're not tough enough, then you'd better just take up something softer, like bowling.

          And your pistol dueling analogy is a little off, if the training happened with potato slugs that hurt like hell when you got shot, and not real bullets that could kill you, then you would probably be better off just learning how to dueling, right from the very start.

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            #6
            With that said, I'd prefer to learn a few concepts at a time. Trying to absorb too many different concepts just screws with my technique. Especially when they're not taught in as very integrated way. And that to me is the issue. If the teaching isn't integrated, then whether you choose to crosstrain or learn in a MMA way, they're just idealized concepts.

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              #7
              I like bowling. But I also like hitting and throwing. This isn't about me, it's looking at some of the reasons why MMA may not wind up being as popular as people expect, even with an excellent track record.

              Fuck, now even the CMA guys are too busy posturing to properly read what's being posted.

              As for arguments on specialization vs. cross-training, see the thread this this one spawned.

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                #8
                I am merely agreeing with Beneath Contempt with added venom and malcontent against those panty wastes who are not worth a bucket of spit. That's the point you wanted to discuss further, correct?

                So my point was, wheater "a person" goes any place irrespective of style, if they don't have the drive to do it properly, then they are better off bowling (or as BC says volleyball) because they do nothing more than clog up the system with neer-do-wells, bullshit artists and poor examples of MAists in general. Not to mention disrespecting the art.

                I was not implicating you in any way. Read my post again, I specifically indicate "a person" NOT "you".

                Or is there something else which you do not believe I read, or am too busy posturing for?
                “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

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                  #9
                  Tai chi is too tough for some people.
                  “We are surrounded by warships and don’t have time to talk. Please pray for us.” — One Somali Pirate.

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                    #10
                    You guys would shit your pants in a full contact bowling match.

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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey
                      I like bowling. But I also like hitting and throwing.
                      I think you should start your own martial art.

                      Throwing bowling balls at people and hitting them. Very unique. Put on seminars about how to defend yourself at bowling alleys. Im serious. This could catch on. Let me know if it works out.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Yrkoon9
                        I think you should start your own martial art.

                        Throwing bowling balls at people and hitting them. Very unique. Put on seminars about how to defend yourself at bowling alleys. Im serious. This could catch on. Let me know if it works out.

                        Already been done - you seen the Big Lebowsky? John Goodman has an arm...

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                          #13
                          Walter was just a natural fighter. He wouldn't be a good teacher of Bowl-Fu.

                          You need someone to systemize it. To really bring it to the people so they can understand its deeper meanings. I mean Walter would be telling 'Nam stories when his students should be bowling.

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                            #14
                            I don't have a martial system laid out just yet, but I've already gone ahead and created an entire line of coloured sashes just in case. And Walter wouldn't be the go-to man, it would be Jesus Quintana.

                            Mr. Mantis, sorry if I'm a little stand-offish. It's been troll city up in this bitch lately.

                            Back on subject, though, I don't agree with the notion that it's MMA or nothing. Just because a "gentler" approach such as Shotokan Karate isn't as good for fighting, its value isn't negated. I believe that a lot of people need to slowly build their confidence and experience up before they're ready to get hardcore. Dismissing them off the bat is not only elitist, it's often hypocritical, considering how few of the people on this site started doing pure MMA (or are doing it now, for that matter).

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                              #15
                              8 year olds, Dude...

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