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    Ki fanatics

    I practice aikido and have done so for a couple of years now. My teacher is a straightforward guy who teaches techniques in a very simple and understandable way (this works, this doesn't and so on). However, he recently went and got himself injured some time ago and so one the other students took over the instruction. One of the first things I noticed was that instead of just explaining how to execute the damn techniques he kept going on and on about how we should feel the ki here and feel the ki there and how we could throw our opponent by projecting our ki like that. Now I don't have a problem with people who believe in ki because I find the concept quite fascinating myself, but when he did the normally effective techniques in his ki manner they simply became quite useless. Luckily my teacher recently returned after his 3 month injury break and I can finally begin to learn something useful again. What I was wondering was if anyone else have ever experienced situations like this where the techniques quite simply loose their original effiency because the instructor (or whoever is doing the technique) is too busy trying to "project their ki" instead of just focusing on the very basic physic principles behind the technique. please give examples and your views on the issue.

    #2
    The funny thing i find with most KI fanatics is that they are mostly WESTERNERS.



    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invinsible Asia) Emporer of Baji!!! THE FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE AGAINST THE UNITED AUSSIE FRONT!!


    "I love you Asia" - I Give BJJs Posted - December 25 2002 : 10:40:09
    ______
    Xiao Ao Jiang Hu Zhi Dong Fang Bu Bai (Laughing Proud Warrior Invincible Asia) Dark Emperor of Baji!!!

    RIP SOLDIER

    Didn't anyone ever tell him a fat man could never be a ninja
    -Gene, GODHAND

    You can't practice Judo just to win a Judo Match! You practice so that no matter what happens, you can win using Judo!
    The key to fighting two men at once is to be much tougher than both of them.
    -Daniel Tosh

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      #3
      I lost my KI once, and had to get a new one made at Home Depot, it sucked.

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        #4
        In my Wing Chun we do internal training and study chi, but we use it more as an energy projection, being able to put more into what you're doing, versus that magical stuff you see in the BS karate schools and movies.

        Basicly the only thing Chi does for a technique is make it more powerful, but that's is if the technique applied right.

        Quoting my sifu about chi "See, it's easy, it's very simple. You don't have study for 10 years and be shown 'secret moves' like in other schools, it's there, use it, it's that easy".


        "But some apes they gotta go, so we kill the ones we don't know" - 'Ape shall never kill Ape' by The Vandals
        Apu: "Oh! You have just been Apu'd!"

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          #5
          I also study Aikido, my Sensei, talks about it in both a Ki sence and a "real" sence. I think when someone says focus on your Ki, you can take it in whatever way you want. Some people believe in Ki/Chi/Qi, well all of the Buddist and Daoist faiths so about 3/5 of the planets population. Now if you believe in that then thats fine and great.

          However, if you dont, then think of it another way. Ki, in my humble opinion, is a mixture of things, relaxation, superior biomechanics and increased confedence in the techniques. Take Kata Dori Nikkyo, I am sure you know as well as I do, that unless you are relaxed in that lock you have a broken wrist. Also, I find that Nikkyo and Sankyo pins work alot better when I am relaxed and settled. My strikes (Te Gatana) are alot more powerful when relaxed.

          I would not bitch about your Sensei, whether you like it or not he/she is teaching. If he/she is teaching you well, even if it is from a different angle. I suggest you say it to your Sensei's face or leave.

          Yours in Aiki.

          "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
          those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
          Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

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            #6
            I think you misunderstood the problem. My regular sensei is a good teacher who focuses on the tchnique and then integrates the ki aspect into these techniques after they work from a physical perspective. However, one of his students replaced him as my teacher a while and this person is a very strong believer in ki. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but when he started explaining that nikkyo isn't about hurting your opponent's wrist, but about "projecting ki" (he loves that phrase) into your opponent I started to wonder if he had any clue what he wa talking about himself. He actually invented the painless nikkyo that way and everybody who have ever felt a nikkyo knows for sure that if it doesn't hurt, it doesn't work. But like I said, my regular sensei is finally back and I'm happy again.

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              #7
              Good, I think with any MA you have to stick with it, in Aikido the answers do not come fast. I hope you continue with your training.

              Best of Luck.

              Yours in Aiki

              "Those who are skilled in combat do not become angered,
              those who are skilled at winning do not become afraid.
              Thus the wise win before the fight, while the ignorant fight to win." -O Sensei Ueshiba

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                #8
                To question what concerns you is a wise thing. Perhaps the " student " has the knowledge of the rank he holds, but not the insight it takes to be a teacher. Teaching is tough and also an ego boosting event, some do not handle to this well and try too hard. Having a BLACK BELT does not make a teacher. Now that your sensai is back relax
                train hard.

                EAT SLEEP TRAIN
                ----------------------------------------
                After reading Jekyll's threads I bring back an old sig.......

                Do you really train or just bore people on message boards and parties talking about it.

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                  #9
                  techniques quite simply loose their original effiency
                  If they ever had any effciency (not that they don't); chi is what makes them powerful and what makes the moves work in some cases, so if chi doesn't really exsist then may be the moves weren't ever effcient.

                  Chi can be used as a false justifciation to say that the body scientificially or physically uses this source of energy to make the moves work, even when they don't, possible never did and/or are just taught incorrectly now.
                  "Training = pain." - I said that.

                  PizDoff when drunk: "I'm actually MOST pissed that my target for the evening got drink...then I gave her my Bullshido Canada hoodie like a gentleman because she was outside with not much on...did I mention she barfed twice when I got our jackets...steaming barf is kinda fascinating..." - PizDoff.

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                    #10
                    I tend to look at chi/ki the way I look at pro athletes' idiosyncrasies when they prepare for a game. If you perform better because you think you have to wear a certain color or chew a certain flavor of gum or breath in a certain way, then that's a good reason to keep doing it. If a person fights better because they imagine themselves using chi or ki, then it works (at least for them). People use all kinds of mental tricks to improve their performance and I think (either right or wrong) that chi/ki fit into that category.
                    "I had once talked to Billy Conn, the boxer, about professionals versus amateurs - specifically street fighters. One had always heard rumors of champions being taken out by back-alley fighters. Conn was scornful. "Aw, it's like hitting a girl," he said. "They're nothing."


                    - George Plimpton
                    "Shadow Box"

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                      #11
                      Do the moves correctly and precisely, and chi will do its work, no need to speak about it until you've got lots of practice (that's what they say in the "classics"). And I mean A LOT ! That's what I think anyway. Faith is involved too.
                      Talking chi to someone who hasn't really have an experience of it may be useless, but it can help. Nevertheless, I really would like to know how you put chi into someone ?

                      "Right or wrong ? I guess but I don't know"

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