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    Demotion as well as promotion?

    Dear All,

    This is more aimed at the TMA crowd I presume as I believe the MMA are only considred as good as their last fight but.. I'd be interested in your views on how long you would have to out of the training loop before you considered yourself not at that level of expertise in your art. Is that dan grade for life or just for Christmas?

    (OK, yes this is not entirely a hypothetical query and yes I'm currently a baad lad as far as some of my association are concerned, but they haven't kicked me out just yet)

    #2
    When ever I am out of training I ALWAYS start back as a white belt. Never been a black belt but at the dojo I used to train at before my health issue we had a black belt come in and insist on starting as a white and working his way back up. Not because he had stopped training at all but rather because even though his style was incrediblly similar to the one being taught it wasn't the same. Have to respect a guy like that. Not to mention that no matter how good you get it never hurts to drill the basics into you.

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      #3
      Agreed. My only previous experience of a "missing" dan grade coming back to the fold was also with a guy who wore white until he was back up to speed. I've now met the other alternative. However, I was hoping for some sort of time-scale you may consider credible.

      For me, if I was away from the dojo for more than a couple of months, I'd consider myself needing time to retrain. More than a year, I'd really want some time to remember etc. All time served in an art would give you is a shorter retraining time.

      [am I making any sense - bleh, it's definitely a Friday]

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        #4
        I don't care for "time tables" just be able to show the ability. Take your rank tests and pass them, if it takes a month or 7 years makes no difference. The credibility comes in the doing not in the time it takes you to do it.

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          #5
          Err, think a bit of cross-intent here - time-table I was referring to was time out of training before you felt your ability was compromised, not time back in training...

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            #6
            Our instructor requires Kun Tao students who are away for more than a year to re-test for their current belt rank at the earliest testing opportunity. The other styles don't have belts.
            Originally posted by Canuckyokushin
            I would so do Buttsecks.

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              #7
              ahh that makes more sense... sorry you must forgive me if I misunderstand once in awhile I have not been the brightest bulb on the block lately...


              Yeah time out has alot to do with it... even two months of being off training makes you suffer. I have been restricted for over a year, even if I was a black belt I would start over as a white and retest. Also the reason for being out has to be considered, mine is totally physically so that makes it more imparative that I come back as a rank beginner and retrain myself and learn my new limitations... but if you are out of training because of a hectic work schedule or some other non physical reason it's important that you come back at a level you are comfortable with. If nothing else ask your sensai to judge your current level and ask them to be brutally honest and to err on the side of lesser ability if you ask them sincerely and let them know your ability means more to you than your ego you will get an honest assessment

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                #8
                That civilisation may not sink,
                Its great battle lost,
                Quiet the dog, tether the pony
                To a distant post;
                Our master Caesar is in the tent
                Where the maps are spread,
                His eyes fixed upon nothing,
                A hand under his head.


                - W.B. Yeats

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                  #9
                  Well...I guess it would depend on whether you're going back to the same school/style or not...I've never been much for belts, but I think you'll figure out pretty quickly where you're at.

                  I don't think technique fades much unless you never think about it...like riding a bike, you might be a little rusty, but you ought not to just forget a bunch of stuff. But strength and stamina sure as hell do.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by I Choke You
                    Well...I guess it would depend on whether you're going back to the same school/style or not...I've never been much for belts, but I think you'll figure out pretty quickly where you're at.

                    I don't think technique fades much unless you never think about it...like riding a bike, you might be a little rusty, but you ought not to just forget a bunch of stuff. But strength and stamina sure as hell do.
                    I have a tendancy to forget if I am not doing, but I am old too. The other thing about being old is that your limitations change.

                    But if I recall you are only 22 so you don't have to worry about that quite yet.

                    Belts are at best an artifical measure of ability, however I do respect anyone who makes ranks, it shows drive and determination. I know people who get pissy about bowing to a black belt or calling a brown belt Mr/Ms Whatever... I have no problem with it, they earned it even if I didn't personally see them earn it, they still did. I know a couple black belts that would be surprised at the difference I would show them in a dojo verses anywhere else... not that I would ever disrespect them, it would just be more formal in the dojo...

                    So yes belts and ranks aren't a big deal and yet they are. I know clear as mud... perhaps it's time to sleep more

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                      #11
                      I just add up my lifetime of training plus time on Bullshido, then consider myself a master...

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                        #12
                        In October I will have been doing MA for exactly 27 years.
                        Hopefully soon, I'll get the basics down.

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                          #13
                          Thats depressing, somehow, ronin.
                          I've just lost my 'drive' for getting belts, I suppose being on bullshido, and seeing how many people can just 'buy' a black belt, or go through the minimum effort required for a black belt, kind of takes away from its 'goal' priority.
                          As it is, I really wouldn't care if I trained as a white belt for the rest of my life, just as long as I occasionally got to learn 'better' or more 'efficient' ways of doing whatever technique (striking, grappling, rolling etc). To add variety to the art, as it were.
                          Besides, if everyone were a white belt, it might wake up some of the TMA community about the importance of the basics, as I know several black belts who enjoy doing their 'sophistomocated' bb forms, but rarely practise the more simpler kata.
                          ...
                          or as I like to call them 'dances of death'
                          :D
                          I also know of several other people who could certainly deserve a demotion, unfortunately, I realistically can't see it happening unless the dojo is being run by a non-profit organization or something. Then theres the issues of impartiality... etc...

                          This would be a perfect example of not knowing really exactly what to say, so making a long, contrived rant when a couple of sentences could do just as well, ah well.

                          -Tom

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                            #14
                            Depressing but true.
                            To be considered a master of ANTHING, is the highest of compliments.

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                              #15
                              I'm the master-debator :D

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