iron palm training

[DANINJA]

I spoke to someone who deos iron palm training to condition his hands it involves the following:

start with rice pound that till it goes to dust then go to small stones do that the same way then go to bigger ones do that the same also , the way you do it is do one rep palm down hitting one rep edge of hand hitting like knife hand then one rep back of hand hitting count to one thousand do that about five times a week

He claims it made his hands very strong and that on the street you cant wear gloves so it makes sense to harden your hands and forearms .

has anyone done this kind of training?
do you think it is effective?
is it bad for you in the long term(injuries)?

[Ronin]

And one of the legendary training regimes of shaoling was, filling a large pot full of water and slapping the water out of the pot, till it was empty, you would then fill the pot again and repeat, and keep doing this for years.
At the end, your palm strike was formidable indeed !!!
If you were ever attacked by a pot of water.

[DANINJA]

i think the water striking method was in one of ashida kims book :)

[Ronin]

Point is, whatever conditioning you can do for any part of your body means TWAT, unless you can fight.

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by ronin69
And one of the legendary training regimes of shaoling was, filling a large pot full of water and slapping the water out of the pot, till it was empty, you would then fill the pot again and repeat, and keep doing this for years.
At the end, your palm strike was formidable indeed !!!
If you were ever attacked by a pot of water.

Uh, yeah... :rolleyes:

The point of the water slapping training is that if you were/are able to generate sufficient kinetic force to cause a large quantity of water to exit a large basin, when said force was applied to a human (made up largely of water him/herself), the reaction would be dramatic.

Originally posted by ronin69
Point is, whatever conditioning you can do for any part of your body means TWAT, unless you can fight.

Granted. Weight lifting, running, bag work, trapping drills, etc. mean absolutely nothing without some method of applying the results of that training. But that should be pretty clear to almost everyone here, right?

The iron palm program we follow begins with a bag full of dried corn or beans, smacking it for 100 days, moving on to sand, smacking that for 100 days, and finally small pebbles (about the size of dimes) or steel shot (not lead), and smacking that for 100 days. Also, using a 5 gallon bucket full of dried corn or beans, we do spear hand thrusts and clawing techniques into the bucket in an attempt to reach the bottom. After 100 days, move to sand, and continue with that through the remainder of the 300 days. There are other exercises as well, many of which are strengthening exercises to develop the grip. You can "rest" one day out of seven, and then back to training.

In the end you get some pretty tough hands, but there aren't any outward signs like huge built up calluses or scar tissue. It is pretty forgiving to the hands, all in all...

[Mr. Mantis]

The palm training I have done is very different from what you described. There are no deliterious effects from doing iron palm training. It is worth doing if you can find proper instruction. I would not do what you described.

Edit: Post direected at thread starter.

[JackHanma]

Originally posted by Matt Stone
Uh, yeah... :rolleyes:


The iron palm program we follow begins with a bag full of dried corn or beans, smacking it for 100 days, moving on to sand, smacking that for 100 days, and finally small pebbles (about the size of dimes) or steel shot (not lead), and smacking that for 100 days. Also, using a 5 gallon bucket full of dried corn or beans, we do spear hand thrusts and clawing techniques into the bucket in an attempt to reach the bottom. After 100 days, move to sand, and continue with that through the remainder of the 300 days. There are other exercises as well, many of which are strengthening exercises to develop the grip. You can "rest" one day out of seven, and then back to training.

Why do you practice the spear hand? Are you really going to hit someone with your finger tips in an actual fight? Clawing techniques? Are refering to more deadly finger pokes?

Why not just practice the straight palm-to-grasp and side palm (the part of the palm opposite of the thumb)?

[Matt Stone]

Originally posted by JackHanma
Why do you practice the spear hand? Are you really going to hit someone with your finger tips in an actual fight? Clawing techniques? Are refering to more deadly finger pokes?

Why not just practice the straight palm-to-grasp and side palm (the part of the palm opposite of the thumb)?

We do use spearhands, but they aren't all that useful until they have been "tempered" by the correct training.

Do you use the same size screwdriver for all tasks? Same size hammer? How about wrenches? Of course you don't - you use the right tool for the job.

So do we. Different hand weapons have different applications and uses. To paraphrase Musashi, to have a few favorite techniques and forsake all others is ignorant and fails to account for the myriad possibilities that present themselves.

Just our way of doing things.

[TxKickerLady]

Lessee if I got this straight....I put a pound of rice and a pound of dried beans into a tempered iron pot full of water, slap it onto a pile of hot rocks, then go have a screwdriver..

[Kidnemo]

Originally posted by Matt Stone
So do we. Different hand weapons have different applications and uses.

We're taught the same thing...

And I'm just not sure if I'm sold on it yet.

Different hand techniques are cool, "leopards paw" for hitting smaller spaces, the throat for example, I'm just not sure if it will work.

I mean, in a real fight, when you're both moving around, adreniline is pumping, and you're going to try to hit a small target like someones throat with an attack like that. It just doesn't seem like the most practical attack to use. A simple punch to the face would work just as well, along with being much easier to land due to having a bigger target.

And btw, I'll need to do iron palm stuff for my next levels training I believe.

[TheManchu]

Iron hands is okay in moderation. It's when people get extreme with training that over fighting that it's silly.

[Ming Loyalist]

http://crane.50megs.com/index6d.htm

this is an interesting article which was written a few years back. he has a lot of intersting things to say, although i don't agree with everything. also he has written follow up articles which talk about the chinese sanda team doing exactly the types of training changes he talks about, and then going to thailand and in some cases winning.

the part of the article relevant to this thread is the part where the iron palm master fought a thai boxer, and found that he couldn't connect with his palm strikes. a true testament to the fact that you can train your palms to be deadly, but if you don't do enough alive training to be able to hit with them, they won't be worth shit.

[Ronin]

When do you get to attack coconuts ?? those bastards !!

[Ming Loyalist]

Originally posted by Kidnemo

I mean, in a real fight, when you're both moving around, adreniline is pumping, and you're going to try to hit a small target like someones throat with an attack like that. It just doesn't seem like the most practical attack to use. A simple punch to the face would work just as well, along with being much easier to land due to having a bigger target..

it can't hurt to practice targeting specific areas in your practice (i.e. hitting pads with dots in the centers, and marking points on your heavy bag and trying to hit those.)

i am convinced that one of the reasons that mirko "crocop" filopovitch has such an impressive KO record is (in addition to uncanny speed and power) his extreme accuracy with his striking.

he always seems to get the side of the neck or the temple with his kicks (both known KO spots) and also has extreme precision with his punches.

i don't think you should count on hitting a precise point when fighting, but i think that having it as a training goal can only be a good thing.

[Kidnemo]

Originally posted by Ming Loyalist
it can't hurt to practice targeting specific areas in your practice (i.e. hitting pads with dots in the centers, and marking points on your heavy bag and trying to hit those.)

i am convinced that one of the reasons that mirko "crocop" filopovitch has such an impressive KO record is (in addition to uncanny speed and power) his extreme accuracy with his striking.

he always seems to get the side of the neck or the temple with his kicks (both known KO spots) and also has extreme precision with his punches.

i don't think you should count on hitting a precise point when fighting, but i think that having it as a training goal can only be a good thing.

That's a valid point.

I'm still a relative noob - I've only been training for about a year, and out of that really only actively training with "aliveness" half of that.

So for me, unless I really outclass the person, just landing head and body shots is difficult enough, let alone targeting someones temple.

btw, noting your style, I'm just getting into fighting with le tai rules now, it's good stuff.