Iran War now? Yea or nay?

[Dr. Gonzo]

The problem is not that the EU isnt paying its way it is that NATO members do not pay their way or pull their weight.

The solution therefore is not to create a new army but simply to pay what they have committed.

If they have an EU army they are effectively saying that they are unwilling to pay into their own military for their individual nations defense and to satisfy NATO obligations but will put it into this other thing that they can then use whenever bypassing their domestic parliaments is necessary.

Great counter point.

Still I have major issues with the US paying more of a percentage of the NATO budget than say Germany or France.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Current reporting, as of 5 mins ago, was mechanical failure. But, as a technologist, I do have a hard time believing in unrelated coincidence. Especially when emotions are running high, I think it's fair to give alternate explanations a fair amount of scrutiny.

(edit) I remain unconvinced that TWA800 was an accident; I was "there."

Ukraine refuses to rule out a shoot down at the current time.

However, besides the explanation of sheer coincidence,

there is also the chance that the heightened alert pulled or distracted resources away from the mechanical safety checks and protocols.

Or that an individual or group with their own agenda decided to execute an act of mechanical sabotage or shot it down, etc,

versus official Iranian action of same.

Clusterfucks happen, and so do individual criminals, and splinter factions.

[submessenger]

Trump to make an address in a little over an hour...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?467950...e-attacks-iraq

[It is Fake]

Yep. Before my family moved to Japan, years ago, my great grandfather sat my dad down and lectured him about how you can't trust any "Japs". He refused to talk to us on the phone while we were there because they were listening to him on the phone, it went on an on. All I knew was how similar all my Japanese friends were, how hot Japanese women are, and how much I loved their culture. I think my great grandfather was a biased, but I also take into account that he was a pilot in the navy stationed at Pearle Harbor on 12/07/41.

Shit many Blacks still teach their kids to be careful of white people and it is 2020.


It is biased, but just yesterday a friend basically said “we go fight overseas to wipe out racists, why haven’t we done the same to the KKK.” A so called white friend called him Kap Jr., promptly posted a 2014 video about race from Morgan Freeman and then told him to listen. Also, told him he hopes he won’t talk/post about things like this anymore.

The irony.

Another said well the democrats started the KKK, posted a picture of Biden with a KKK dude from 2003 and told him to “read.”

The fucking irony.

He answered both saying “I am not spreading blame everyone is guilty.” Neither did what they told him to do and posted “fake news.”

Sadly, confirmation bias sucks. He has a friend who is white and they have traveled all over the US to multiple baseball parks. He works with many who have his back. His kids are biracial.

Still, We all know which two he used to confirm his bias against all white people.

I know it isn’t Pearl Harbor level, but ignorance doesn’t need levels to be confirmed.

[PDA]

Great counter point.

Still I have major issues with the US paying more of a percentage of the NATO budget than say Germany or France.

I completely agree.

There is a reason for their failure to cough up and that is because their agenda is not aligned with NATO.

Hence their rallying to criticize the US strike on Soulimani whilst the UK PM refused to do the same.

The pro EU press here are saying it is because of the trade deal Boris Johnson wants to do with with the US which is partly true but it is also because well most the the UK government probably think it was a great idea and I would be real money that Boris Johnson did know about it and gave his support for it privately hence not coming back from his holiday early as he was expecting it and thus wasnt shocked into doing anything immediately.

[submessenger]

Trump to make an address in a little over an hour...

https://www.c-span.org/video/?467950...e-attacks-iraq

[W. Rabbit]

The situation is still extremely volatile. It's not often another country's forces attack the United States openly...do not forget the 82nd Airborne are en route. Paratrooper assault.

There is a lot of TLP chatter going on that isn't public, too. Accusations flying, etc. Now the news are doing the theorycrafting thing, e.g. Iran is trying to not hurt any Americans.

What the fuck ever.

[goodlun]

The situation is still extremely volatile. It's not often another country's forces attack the United States openly...do not forget the 82nd Airborne are en route. Paratrooper assault.

There is a lot of TLP chatter going on that isn't public, too. Accusations flying, etc. Now the news are doing the theorycrafting thing, e.g. Iran is trying to not hurt any Americans.

What the fuck ever.

Iran is in a difficult spot, they can't let a general get killed, but they sure as fuck can't go to war.

[patfromlogan]

Posts here, and written or said in the media, or by those supposed to be on the left, like Warren and the gay guy who should have changed his name into something l could pronounce or spell all say, basically or exactly, legality aside, taking out Suleimani was worth it.

“The real question to ask about the American drone attack that killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani was not whether it was justified, but whether it was wise” — The New York Times


Is the rule now that the US is allowed unilaterally to execute the officials of other governments who are responsible for many deaths? Are we the only ones who can do this? Can any government claim the right? Should someone assassinate proven war criminals who have caused millions of deaths? Like Kissinger? Cheney? Bush?

The CIA killed the Iranian prime minister and set up a dictatorship that slaughtered tens of thousands. Should CIA’s Allen Dulles have been assassinated?

Almost all Americans would call assassinating the director of the CIA terrorism. Is terrorism something America Never Does? Like enhanced interrogation? We don’t torture.

If, hypothetically, shoe on the other foot time, let’s say Iraq invaded the US, took out our military and the brave homegrown militias led the fight against the invaders. The British gave aid to the militias. Would Iraq be justified in assassinating the chief of Britain’s military?

[W. Rabbit]

Iran is in a difficult spot, they can't let a general get killed, but they sure as fuck can't go to war.

Iran has big badasses for military allies. If it comes to blows other countries join in to protect their strategic interests.

Russia already has us tearing each other apart online, now they are absolutely spreading massive amounts of bullshit disinformation about what just happened. The real fake news, not Trump's version.

And not one day after the state vs state kinetic warfare, a new conspiracy theory related to Ukraine. Damn, Vlad, after making billions in oil..you are on a roll.

[goodlun]

Neither Russia nor China are willing to go hot over Iran, they be on their own in anything kenetic.
Yes yes you want to talk about cyber warfare and propaganda but you keep missing the big thing.
Americans have already accepted war, we are not protesting in the streets. That acceptance, is the danger.
Iran hides behind the fact that they think we won't act.

[goodlun]

https://southpark.cc.com/clips/10353...r-country-song

[W. Rabbit]

Neither Russia nor China are willing to go hot over Iran, they be on their own in anything kenetic.
Yes yes you want to talk about cyber warfare and propaganda but you keep missing the big thing.
Americans have already accepted war, we are not protesting in the streets. That acceptance, is the danger.
Iran hides behind the fact that they think we won't act.

The problem with all wars though, is that they never quite develop in a reasoned, rational way. WWI started with an assassination, too. We were "Mission Accomplished" in Iraq years before the dawn of ISIS.

Remember the naval wargames you posted about? They are practicing many different scenarios so that whichever one falls out of the sky one day, they'll already be hot.

It's not like a game of volleyball where one side has the ball or the other. First, one ball, then regiments of balls flying in all different directions. It can happen, because it has happened before.

[Cassius]

Posts here, and written or said in the media, or by those supposed to be on the left, like Warren and the gay guy who should have changed his name into something l could pronounce or spell all say, basically or exactly, legality aside, taking out Suleimani was worth it.

“The real question to ask about the American drone attack that killed Maj. Gen. Qassim Suleimani was not whether it was justified, but whether it was wise” — The New York Times


Is the rule now that the US is allowed unilaterally to execute the officials of other governments who are responsible for many deaths? Are we the only ones who can do this? Can any government claim the right? Should someone assassinate proven war criminals who have caused millions of deaths? Like Kissinger? Cheney? Bush?

The CIA killed the Iranian prime minister and set up a dictatorship that slaughtered tens of thousands. Should CIA’s Allen Dulles have been assassinated?

Almost all Americans would call assassinating the director of the CIA terrorism. Is terrorism something America Never Does? Like enhanced interrogation? We don’t torture.

If, hypothetically, shoe on the other foot time, let’s say Iraq invaded the US, took out our military and the brave homegrown militias led the fight against the invaders. The British gave aid to the militias. Would Iraq be justified in assassinating the chief of Britain’s military?

It is wise to be able to see all sides of a problem or conflict. Some actions the U.S. has taken are justifiable, others are not. Understanding the perspective of your opponent or enemy is not the same thing as accepting their worldview as equivalent, though. The problems we have had since we have taken the role of world leadership post WWII have been reacting to problems without then proactively finding a way to extricate ourselves from these problems in the long term. I don't have a good answer for you, because we have been putting the wrong people in power for decades, if not centuries. And we let these people have more control and power whenever they ask for it.

As I've said before: one can choose between a large corrupt government capable of large corruption and large good and bad decisions and a small corrupt government capable of small corruption and small good and bad decisions. Those are your two choices. There are not any other choices.

[W. Rabbit]

Oh now we're cooking, the US Army just distributed an alert about fake text messages getting sent all over, ordering people to report to recruiters or go to jail.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/...t-message.html

Right on the heels of the Selective Service website crashing due to heavy loads of worried teenagers.

Psychological warfare works. People hurt themselves.