Iran War now? Yea or nay?

[Dung Beatles]

I think you underestimate the crazy that can come from a theocracy. I've spent enough time around religious nuts of all stripes that believed God was on their side to know that, they are suicidal, just delusional. I see no evidence to point away from the Ayatollahs being the same. I'm sure the Ayatollah knows that on paper he can't win. However, I'm also fairly certain that he thinks he has the X-factor of the Supreme Ruler of the Universe being in his corner and who, he truly believes will fight for him. You really need to get a good look inside that sort of crazy. Much like the Arab nations around Israel believe and teach that they won all of their wars against Israel... Their belief system won't let them think any different. This guy truly believes that the US can't beat him, because if the US tries they are going to be going toe to toe with the almighty. That should terrify you just a bit.

I'll be honest, I didn't allow myself to think this and you have definitely given me something to think about.

I assumed he was just another charlatan as so many religious leaders are. I was under the impression that he was just another non-believer who manipulates the believers to get what he wants.

So you're saying he's the real deal? As in, an actual religious zealot who believes that he's at the head of God's own military.

[Dung Beatles]

So you're saying he's the real deal? As in, an actual religious zealot who believes that he's at the head of God's own military.

Furthermore, a religious zealot with a violent mandate from God to cleanse the Earth of heretics, apostates and heathens.

That is a sobering thought.

[Michael Tzadok]

I'll be honest, I didn't allow myself to think this and you have definitely given me something to think about.

I assumed he was just another charlatan as so many religious leaders are. I was under the impression that he was just another non-believer who manipulates the believers to get what he wants.

So you're saying he's the real deal? As in, an actual religious zealot who believes that he's at the head of God's own military.

Many that you see, and even rightly call charlatans in any religion are in fact true believers. Very few people start off on the path of becoming clergy with the intent of deceiving people, and misleading people. It is far too thankless of a job at the lower ranks with no guarantee of promotion to the big leagues for that. Even in the US, less than one tenth of one percent of all clergy are solely supported at a living wage by their ministerial work.

What most people in pulpit ministry are(or at least expected to be) 24/7 psychotherapists with woeful preparation for the same, that also do weddings(maybe) and funerals without ever making anywhere near the rates of an actual psychotherapist, and being called heretic and charlatan any time you say something people don't like(oh and having the security in your questionable job threatened by the same). There was a pew study a few years back I'm too lazy to look up now, but which said you had a better chance of making it through the Omaha beach landing than you do of lasting five years in ministry.

So yeah those few that either through charisma or sheer force of will that break through to the big leagues, they are true believers with, ususally, an unhealthy dose of confirmation bias that God really is on their side as they not only survived what 90+% of their peers failed at, they have thrived in it. Many never realize the charlatanry and chicanery that they partake in.

So yeah, if you look at the history of the Ayatollahs, they are, in my opinion, true believers, who absolutely believe that God is on their side.

Furthermore, a religious zealot with a violent mandate from God to cleanse the Earth of heretics, apostates and heathens.

That is a sobering thought.

Yes, yes it is. Which is why I generally oppose theocracies of all forms.

[BKR]

That's why the ladies loved me. Superior DNA in my jeans.

Hair trigger problem, eh? No wonder you didn't have any kids.

[Dung Beatles]

So yeah those few that either through charisma or sheer force of will that break through to the big leagues, they are true believers with, ususally, an unhealthy dose of confirmation bias that God really is on their side as they not only survived what 90+% of their peers failed at, they have thrived in it. Many never realize the charlatanry and chicanery that they partake in.

The part in bold, I don't understand.

When I said religious leaders, I didn't necessarily mean the rank and file clergy though those protestant Xtians that practice the prosperity doctrine certainly give me reason to doubt.

I was speaking more about people who advance through the ranks and become the head of or found their own organization.

As for the part in bold here, if they go on the Trinity Broadcast Network then I do not believe they are sincere even in the most remote way. Faith Healers, for example, are the ones who I personally believe to be career charlatans. They're just modern day fortune tellers and spiritualists. Similarly, to be an autocrat like Khomeini or a Saudi King, I just didn't think it was possible that they really believed. Khameini uses his faith like a weapon, not an instrument of healing.

Take the history of the Catholic church as another example. There were Pope's throughout the middle and dark ages engages in all kinds of scandalous behavior. The Franciscans who were burned to death by the devout Jesuit heretics really had it coming. They engaged in deep levels of vice and self indulgence while the common man was punished, often to death, for the slightest vanity.

Hypocrisy is real but I just assumed those guys merely endorsed the double standard as a means of misdirection from themselves. And what true believer would do that? Jim Bakker from PTL clud infamy and Jimmy Swaggert are other good examples of common con men rising to fame through castigating others for lesser breeches than their bad behavior.

I think certain denominations of faith are much more infested with fakes than others. Is it possible that there are just less fakes in Judaism than Christianity? Especially American evangelicals of the TBN and faith healing variety.

Yes, yes it is. Which is why I generally oppose theocracies of all forms.

[ghost55]

Anyone that thinks invading Iran is unironically a good idea is either a moron or a sociopath. No one supporting the war in this thread is going to lose anything. Being pro-war when other people are doing the dying and killing is like being a pro-life incel.

[Dr. Gonzo]

Anyone that thinks invading Iran is unironically a good idea is either a moron or a sociopath. No one supporting the war in this thread is going to lose anything. Being pro-war when other people are doing the dying and killing is like being a pro-life incel.

Ghost, I am firmly against attacking anyone who has not attacked us first.

I am against the endless warring in the middle east.

But, nothing you have stated in your post above is a worthy form of debate from you.

Largely because every word except

No one supporting the war in this thread is going to lose anything.

was just name calling.

And even the quoted statement above is a fair statement in some specifics, but still generally incorrect.

The tax payers pay for the war.

Some people on this thread may be deployed, or have children that end up getting deployed, or other relatives that end up getting deployed.....

As you have said before, you make deliberately lazy posts.

[ghost55]

I don't want to pay for a fucking war either. I don't want my friends that are still technically IRR to get recalled for this shit. I don't want to watch my country be responsible for another million pointless deaths. To the best of my knowledge everyone involved in this thread aside from myself either served and is permanently out, or is too old to be called up even if we get a draft.

[Dr. Gonzo]

I don't want to pay for a fucking war either. I don't want my friends that are still technically IRR to get recalled for this shit. I don't want to watch my country be responsible for another million pointless deaths. To the best of my knowledge everyone involved in this thread aside from myself either served and is permanently out, or is too old to be called up even if we get a draft.

This is a very fair post.

[jnp]

Anyone that thinks invading Iran is unironically a good idea is either a moron or a sociopath. No one supporting the war in this thread is going to lose anything. Being pro-war when other people are doing the dying and killing is like being a pro-life incel.

I stand to lose damn good friends who are still in the military you asshole. Fuck off.

It would be beyond foolish to have boots on the ground in Iran. Have you seen the topographic maps of that country? Second only to Afghanistan for having unforgiving terrain.

No more wars please.

[ghost55]

I stand to lose damn good friends who are still in the military you asshole. Fuck off.

It would be beyond foolish to have boots on the ground in Iran. Have you seen the topographic maps of that country? Second only to Afghanistan for having unforgiving terrain.

No more wars please.

Did you not see my follow up? I do too. I think we're going down a really stupid road.

[goodlun]

Anyone that thinks invading Iran is unironically a good idea is either a moron or a sociopath. No one supporting the war in this thread is going to lose anything. Being pro-war when other people are doing the dying and killing is like being a pro-life incel.

I have yet to see any pro-war post in this thread.
Keep on virtue signalling though.

[ghost55]

I have yet to see any pro-war post in this thread.
Keep on virtue signalling though.

You can't claim to be anti-war and support every single action we take that brings us closer to war.

[goodlun]

You can't claim to be anti-war and support every single action we take that brings us closer to war.

We have not taken any actions that move us closer to war.

[goodlun]

And Iraq has voted to remove US troops.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj...ps-11578236473