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Is CTE Bullshido? Scientists Question Media Coverage

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    Is CTE Bullshido? Scientists Question Media Coverage

    Video here with dozens of scientists/scientific bodies weighing in;

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD1lnGjw31k&app=desktophttps://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj....apid-responseshttps://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...3DZr82OK51mkgJ

    Meanwhile other scientists such as Andrew Gardner have postulated that what is being described as CTE is in fact two or more separate diseases that are the result of concussions or repeated concussions.

    So in short taking blows to the head is a serious concern but CTE requires vastly more research and the cause and effect is not well understand, it is likely the explanations will become vastly more nuanced from here on out.

    #2
    I wouldn't call it outright bullshido. The media over-hypes everything, but that doesn't mean there isn't serious concern. 2 things to consider:

    1) Mohammed Ali. He kind of shined the light on the issue. It's pretty hard to ignore the cause and effect in his case.
    2) Professional sports. There are billions of dollars at stake on this issue for the NFL. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if this new movement against the CTE discussion isn't exactly like the misinformation that was spread on climate change by the oil companies. The NFL covered up all sorts of crimes committed by popular players, do you really think they won't do the same here??

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Sanda_fan View Post
      Video here with dozens of scientists/scientific bodies weighing in;

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD1lnGjw31k&app=desktop

      Timestamp 20:42 for the professor roasting the link between CTE and suicide.

      Firstly blows to the head are serious business. Links have been established between blows to the head and extensively studied neurological diseases such as Parkinson’s and Alzheimer’s.

      Nevertheless in the USA the disease CTE has in the recent past blown up receiving a massive amount of media attention.

      Media outlets have depicted CTE as a serious condition that was long suppressed by the NFL.

      This is at odds with the media coverage in other countries. In Britain the British Medical Journal published an article in 2015 where they described CTE as “as defined in America not a neurological entity but social specific cultural phenomenon” source;

      https://www.bmj.com/content/350/bmj....apid-responses

      Even in America scientists have had articles peer reviewed and published that question the existence of CTE. Professor Christopher Randolph publishes an article titled “CTE is not a real disease?”. Source;

      https://scholar.google.com/scholar?h...3DZr82OK51mkgJ

      Meanwhile other scientists such as Andrew Gardner have postulated that what is being described as CTE is in fact two or more separate diseases that are the result of concussions or repeated concussions.

      So in short taking blows to the head is a serious concern but CTE requires vastly more research and the cause and effect is not well understand, it is likely the explanations will become vastly more nuanced from here on out.
      Scientifically, CTE is in the speculative phase much like AGW is in a speculative phase.

      However, TBI is not speculative, and nor is it speculative that climate on the planet changes, and we are seeing some climate changes now.

      So, may I suggest that instead of making CTE the issue,

      Look to the TBI research.

      TBI research has significant research that involves non-post-mortem cases, as well as post-mortem cases, and includes both human TBI patient data collection, and animal models where they administer concussions and/or more severe brain trauma to animals.
      Last edited by Dr. Gonzo; 12/20/2019 9:14am, .

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
        I wouldn't call it outright bullshido. The media over-hypes everything, but that doesn't mean there isn't serious concern. 2 things to consider:

        1) Mohammed Ali. He kind of shined the light on the issue. It's pretty hard to ignore the cause and effect in his case.??

        Comment


          #5
          One issue is that there are still many many things about the brain that we don't understand. When you look at TBIs you can have all sorts of results from that TBI. Some of them are measurable. For example, IQ. There are instances where you can see a sharp decline in IQ after a TBI. But that is hard to get good data on because most people don't arbitrarily go out and get IQ tests. So it's rare that you get a before and after IQ. However, sometimes you can see people with high level educations and working in skilled professions all the sudden have below average IQs after at TBI. All the while having no physical symptoms whatsoever.

          Then you can have people get TBIs that mimic CVAs in their physical limitations. Losing the use of two extremities, expressive aphasia, and facial nerve problems. All this with no mental limitations.

          Sometimes you will see severe memory problems resulting from TBI. And those are measurable. Many times these people don't have physical manifestations or limitations.

          So there is a wide array of physical and mental issues you can have from TBI. That makes it hard to study. But at least you have a trauma that you can point to. The problem with CTE is that you don't have a definitive trauma. Then you have a similar array of physical and mental limitations that makes it difficult to study. THEN the fact that it is happening over time complicates the matter because some of these symptoms can come from other things also like old age and other disease processes.

          All that to say just because you don't understand something doesn't make it BS.
          Combatives training log.

          Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

          Drum thread

          Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

          "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

          Comment


            #6
            It's kind of like how they've used autism. It's used as a one size fits all diagnosis. I think the CTE stuff is basically just like that. If Ali were diagnosed today they would probably call it CTE.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Cousin Eddie View Post
              One issue is that there are still many many things about the brain that we don't understand. When you look at TBIs you can have all sorts of results from that TBI. Some of them are measurable. For example, IQ. There are instances where you can see a sharp decline in IQ after a TBI. But that is hard to get good data on because most people don't arbitrarily go out and get IQ tests. So it's rare that you get a before and after IQ. However, sometimes you can see people with high level educations and working in skilled professions all the sudden have below average IQs after at TBI. All the while having no physical symptoms whatsoever.

              Then you can have people get TBIs that mimic CVAs in their physical limitations. Losing the use of two extremities, expressive aphasia, and facial nerve problems. All this with no mental limitations.

              Sometimes you will see severe memory problems resulting from TBI. And those are measurable. Many times these people don't have physical manifestations or limitations.

              So there is a wide array of physical and mental issues you can have from TBI. That makes it hard to study. But at least you have a trauma that you can point to. The problem with CTE is that you don't have a definitive trauma. Then you have a similar array of physical and mental limitations that makes it difficult to study. THEN the fact that it is happening over time complicates the matter because some of these symptoms can come from other things also like old age and other disease processes.

              All that to say just because you don't understand something doesn't make it BS.
              Meh, I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm just fine........

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
                Meh, I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm just fine........
                My hands shake.

                One more so than the other.

                It affects my fine motor skills, for things like handling keys, writing with a pen / pencil, and fine tool use.

                This presented towards my late twenties after being both an amateur boxer, and a paid NHB / shoot fighter.

                You take enough concussions, there is often a consequence, particularly if you don't take recovery precautions.

                I know a lot of ex-fighters with shaky hands, and some noticeable memory issues.

                It is what it is.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
                  and I'm just fine........
                  I don't know if you are setting yourself up on purpose or not......
                  God damn Poe's Law!!!!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
                    Meh, I've been hit in the head plenty of times and I'm just fine........
                    Exhibit A.
                    Combatives training log.

                    Gezere: paraphrase from Bas Rutten, Never escalate the level of violence in fight you are losing. :D

                    Drum thread

                    Pavel Tsatsouline: kettlebell workouts give you “cardio without the dishonour of aerobics”.

                    "Disliking someone is not evidence of wrongdoing or malfeasance or even bias." --Dung Beatles

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Krampus View Post
                      My hands shake.

                      One more so than the other.

                      It affects my fine motor skills, for things like handling keys, writing with a pen / pencil, and fine tool use.

                      This presented towards my late twenties after being both an amateur boxer, and a paid NHB / shoot fighter.

                      You take enough concussions, there is often a consequence, particularly if you don't take recovery precautions.

                      I know a lot of ex-fighters with shaky hands, and some noticeable memory issues.

                      It is what it is.
                      Good grief how many concussions have you had?? I'm lucky that I'm thick headed. If I did get memory problems I don't remember them now. I just chalk the whole thing up to risk vs. reward.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Bneterasedmynam View Post
                        It's kind of like how they've used autism. It's used as a one size fits all diagnosis. I think the CTE stuff is basically just like that. If Ali were diagnosed today they would probably call it CTE.

                        Exactly, nothing can prove it was CTE (whatever negative behaviour).

                        Nothing can disprove that it was CTE either.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Sanda_fan View Post
                          Nothing can disprove that it was CTE either.
                          LOGICALLY FALLACY ALERT!!!

                          In general the idea is that you have to prove something not the inverse.


                          So we need to actually prove it is CTE.

                          However that is not to say no sort evidence exists, it is just that evidence might not be to the highest levels that we would want to see.
                          Not all of the evidence needs to be in before you start thinking about the consequences of something.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by goodlun View Post
                            LOGICALLY FALLACY ALERT!!!

                            In general the idea is that you have to prove something not the inverse.


                            So we need to actually prove it is CTE.

                            However that is not to say no sort evidence exists, it is just that evidence might not be to the highest levels that we would want to see.
                            Not all of the evidence needs to be in before you start thinking about the consequences of something.
                            That’s true yes, it’s good to be aware that blows to the head are not a good thing.

                            It goes the other way though when people start self diagnosing. Especially with the narrative that it’s progressively degenerative (which has been disputed by some scientists.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Sanda_fan View Post
                              That’s true yes, it’s good to be aware that blows to the head are not a good thing.

                              It goes the other way though when people start self diagnosing. Especially with the narrative that it’s progressively degenerative (which has been disputed by some scientists.
                              CTE is really only a threat to people that are putting themselves into a situation where they can get repeated TBI.
                              So having protocols that reduces the frequency and severity of TBI is almost always going to be a giant WIN for anyone in those positions.
                              I don't follow the science close enough for CTE to know how much scientist or medical practitioners agree with the progressive nature or not.
                              However I am pretty sure we have seen empirical evidence that frequency seems to lead to more severity, when it comes to TBI.
                              That seems to suggest that CTE is really a thing.
                              But to be very clear I am standing onto of Mt Stupid Opining about something I know very little about and applying layman level of analysis, would happily be corrected by a neurologist or other brain dr/scientist

                              Comment

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