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This is why Gun Control is Contentious

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  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
    Ooooh trying to be slick. This is why i just posted the semantics post above.

    The person in question has a right to bear/carry/own arms. It is a PRIVILEGE to be able to take them anywhere the person wants.
    Yeah, so smart...he is.

    You can't carry on my private property, either, without my permission.

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Can they exercise the right to carry in these court rooms?
    No weapons in Court Room etc. Court security.

    Leave a comment:


  • Dr. Gonzo
    replied
    I hate to give Fake a complement,

    but that was fairly fine rapier work.

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    My version of gun control. Registration, training and research is less restrictive than that right.

    How is that for slick.
    Slick would be coming up with something new and never before suggested. So, not slick at all. Slick is your sarcasm about the court and trying to play it off as a right.

    The difference as I understand it by the way is that a right has to be infringed by a higher authority than a privilege. So for example a state could not determine on a right but could on a privilege.
    And so a right would only be infringed buy a high court ruling in my case a SCOTUS ruling in your or a referendum.

    But that is balls from a practical viewpoint.
    So, how about you separate your questions or affirm what you are discussing. I don’t want to unpack all of this because you are talking about infringement, while asking about a right, which in your estimation is the same as a privilege and then refer to a high court SCOTUS referendum that sends it back in a circle.

    Leave a comment:


  • gregaquaman
    replied
    Originally posted by It is Fake View Post
    Ooooh trying to be slick. This is why i just posted the semantics post above.

    The person in question has a right to bear/carry/own arms. It is a PRIVILEGE to be able to take them anywhere the person wants.
    My version of gun control. Registration, training and research is less restrictive than that right.

    How is that for slick.

    The difference as I understand it by the way is that a right has to be infringed by a higher authority than a privilege. So for example a state could not determine on a right but could on a privilege.
    And so a right would only be infringed buy a high court ruling in my case a SCOTUS ruling in your or a referendum.

    But that is balls from a practical viewpoint.
    Last edited by gregaquaman; 1/08/2020 4:33pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Can they exercise the right to carry in these court rooms?
    Ooooh trying to be slick. This is why i just posted the semantics post above.

    The person in question has a right to bear/carry/own arms. It is a PRIVILEGE to be able to take them anywhere the person wants.

    Leave a comment:


  • It is Fake
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    What makes them different to a privilege?

    And because I bothered to hunt it down. Least corrupt governments.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corr...ceptions_Index

    Or what would make training, registration and research not still be a right?
    nononononononono


    If you do not understand the difference, with multiple examples given, then I will start a new thread where you can argue the point all day long.
    Last edited by It is Fake; 1/08/2020 4:14pm, .

    Leave a comment:


  • gregaquaman
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Dude, I work in the courts. Judge's tell defendants who are going to testify on their own behalf explicitly they have an ABSOLUTE right to NOT testify if they do not wish to do so (in criminal cases). That is also part of jury instructions to the jury in the case of a jury trial.

    The defendant has to explicitly, on the record, waive their 5th Amendment right, with advice of counsel (unless they are representing themselves).

    The right to a jury trial in ALL felony criminal cases, and most misdemeanor criminal cases, if demanded, is an ABSOLUTE right. The only exception is if the penalty for guilt does not carry any jail time. Same with civil cases over a certain monetary value.

    A couple of examples of rights vs privilege.
    Can they exercise the right to carry in these court rooms?

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    There might not be any significant difference.

    "A constitutional privilege is defensive, but it may be asserted as of right. Thus there is not necessarily a diminution of the right against self-incrimination when that right is called ".
    Dude, I work in the courts. Judge's tell defendants who are going to testify on their own behalf explicitly they have an ABSOLUTE right to NOT testify if they do not wish to do so (in criminal cases). That is also part of jury instructions to the jury in the case of a jury trial.

    The defendant has to explicitly, on the record, waive their 5th Amendment right, with advice of counsel (unless they are representing themselves).

    The right to a jury trial in ALL felony criminal cases, and most misdemeanor criminal cases, if demanded, is an ABSOLUTE right. The only exception is if the penalty for guilt does not carry any jail time. Same with civil cases over a certain monetary value.

    A couple of examples of rights vs privilege.

    Leave a comment:


  • gregaquaman
    replied
    Originally posted by ghost55 View Post
    Not only no, but fuck no.
    So if someone wants to say punch me in the nose because I have word hurt him. My rights restrict his freedom to do so and provide me with the security to continue to speak.

    Even if he is bigger than me and would be able to beat me up if the system wasn't fixed to prevent that?

    Corrupt police forces by country.

    https://www.indexmundi.com/surveys/results/1

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    My first Judo coach had a fully functional replica of a Confederate artillery piece, plus projectiles, fuse, and a hell of a lot of coarse cannon-grade black powder...

    He kept it in his garage.

    My GF in HS was a machinist. She and I made one in her brother's machine shop. That is to say, a functional cannon. We had a ton of fun with that one !

    I'm not orange anymore than you still have teeth...

    Something like this:
    https://ironbrigader.com/2011/04/15/...tain-howitzer/

    Leave a comment:


  • ghost55
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Isn't rights fundamentally about security?
    Not only no, but fuck no.

    Leave a comment:


  • gregaquaman
    replied
    Originally posted by BKR View Post
    Well, you might start with a dictionary. Maybe a legal one ?

    And in AUS, there might not be any significant difference for all I know.

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/politic...ge-distinction

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(law)

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/privilege

    That should get you started.
    There might not be any significant difference.

    "A constitutional privilege is defensive, but it may be asserted as of right. Thus there is not necessarily a diminution of the right against self-incrimination when that right is called ".

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    Isn't rights fundamentally about security?
    Not sure, first inclination is to say "no", but it's not a total "no".

    Why would that be an important distinction to you ?

    Leave a comment:


  • BKR
    replied
    Right vs Privilege

    Originally posted by gregaquaman View Post
    What makes them different to a privilege.

    And because I bothered to hunt it down.

    Least corrupt governments.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corr...ceptions_Index
    Well, you might start with a dictionary. Maybe a legal one ?

    And in AUS, there might not be any significant difference for all I know.

    https://www.encyclopedia.com/politic...ge-distinction

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Privilege_(law)

    https://legal-dictionary.thefreedict....com/privilege

    That should get you started.

    Leave a comment:

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